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  1. #1
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    Angry Redemption Period + Ipower = Morrons and Injustice

    Currently I am experiencing the following situation with IPOWER.com(ipowerweb.com). I've had a domain with hosting account registered with them for over 2 years now. My accounts are all set to automatically update. Last year everything updated fine. This year I noticed the site gone. I called them up, thinking it was my error, my credit card must of been cancelled. I told the chat person on Dec 29, How much would it cost to take it out of redemption. I was told $160.00 + $9.95 for the domain. I asked for a URL of where to do such payment, since I needed to confirm with my customer. The next morning I get emails, before I event talk to my customer, where they charge my account $160.00 + $9.95. I immediately call them to complain of such action, and after talking to a bunch of mis-communicative morrons, they are accusing me of authorizing such payments. I show them the chat conversation where I never authorized such thing, and they keep accusing me of such. To make matters worse, they charged my account automatically on Dec 18, for hosting, and yet I was told that my account was set on manual. I never changed it to manual I argued. And if it was manual, why did they automatically charge on DEc 18. There support is Bull ****. I am being screwed. I seriously think this was done on purpose. Must not be the only one.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard frank1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yahualic View Post
    Currently I am experiencing the following situation with IPOWER.com(ipowerweb.com). I've had a domain with hosting account registered with them for over 2 years now. My accounts are all set to automatically update. Last year everything updated fine. This year I noticed the site gone. I called them up, thinking it was my error, my credit card must of been cancelled. I told the chat person on Dec 29, How much would it cost to take it out of redemption. I was told $160.00 + $9.95 for the domain. I asked for a URL of where to do such payment, since I needed to confirm with my customer. The next morning I get emails, before I event talk to my customer, where they charge my account $160.00 + $9.95. I immediately call them to complain of such action, and after talking to a bunch of mis-communicative morrons, they are accusing me of authorizing such payments. I show them the chat conversation where I never authorized such thing, and they keep accusing me of such. To make matters worse, they charged my account automatically on Dec 18, for hosting, and yet I was told that my account was set on manual. I never changed it to manual I argued. And if it was manual, why did they automatically charge on DEc 18. There support is Bull ****. I am being screwed. I seriously think this was done on purpose. Must not be the only one.
    it is always bad to be in your situation.
    I think it is the problem with the system may be properly things not cancelled,misunderstanding or so on.

    But manual understanding and cooperation is always required in situation like this,that why i feel dont go for cheap but go for "one" who co-operates with you and help you.

    Hope problem will be solved soon

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    So here we go again. This morning Ipower comes back again with the same support person and again accuses me authorizing the redemption fee. I could not help myself and called him an idiot. How is possible I have to ask them to look at the chat conversation every time I speak to one of them, to see that the redemption fee was never authorized.

    I think they are just not getting the point, or are trying to save their *** from eating up the cost for their error.

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    The following ipower specialist <name deleted by moderator> is the same guy who responds to my same request. Read the CHAT CONVERSATION no there did I authorize payment. Do I need a lawyer for them dumb butts to listen?

    -------------------
    Thank you for getting back to us.

    We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. I can understand your frustration and the importance of business to you. Our records show that you have already contacted to our Chat Support on December 30, 2009 and you have agreed to pay the redemption fee. Hence, we have charged $160.00 redemption fee and renewed the domain. This is the reason it is not possible to refund the amount.

    If you have any further questions, please update the Support Console.

    Sincerely,

    <name deleted by moderator>
    Domain Registrar Specialist
    Ipower
    ------------------------------
    Last edited by molona; Jan 6, 2010 at 17:08. Reason: Name of specialist deleted

  5. #5
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    As much as I understand your frustration, giving personal names is not a nice practice and can get you into trouble if this particular person read this thread. He could take legal action against you and he could win. Be careful with what you say and how you say it. Internet is a public place. Besides, this guy works for that company and it is hard to know if he takes any decissions at all. It may not be his fault.

    Your situation is not unsual, unfortunately, and we lack the information to do a proper judgement (we only have your word, and eve if you posted the chat here, there's nothing to prove that you didn't change it).

    Don't take it personal, I am not saying that you're not telling the truth, but simply stating a fact.

    From my point of view, you have the following options:

    - if you card was indeed cancelled, or if it is your fault and your customer want the hosting, then you have no choice but to suffer the consequences. Pay and move on.

    - If it was not your fault but, let's say, your customer's, and your customer wants the hosting, then he has to pay the redemption.

    - If you were charged on the right time (as it looks you've been, on Dec. 18th) for this particular concept but then charge again for the redemption fee, send them the proof of both payments and ask for a refund of the second. Be careful, it has to be the same concept. If you were charged on the 18th for the hosting but you're paying the redemption for the domain name, the concepts are different.

    - If you think you should claim but they're not lisenting to you, go to a Chamber of Commerce and ask them how to claim officially. There's always official ways to complain that will be registered by the local authority and this will reflect on their statistics about customer satisfaction, information that's public when someone searches for information about a particular company. Also consider moving the hosting and domain registration somewhere else.

    You should also seek legal advice if things get serious. Most of the time an official complaint will do, but you need to keep record of everything and proof of verything you say and do, so use the proper channels to communicate with them. The Chamber of Commerce should be able to tell you with communiation means would be aceptable in a legal court (you will not go that far for this amount, but it is always good to use the proper channels just in case)

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard frank1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    As much as I understand your frustration, giving personal names is not a nice practice and can get you into trouble if this particular person read this thread. He could take legal action against you and he could win. Be careful with what you say and how you say it. Internet is a public place. Besides, this guy works for that company and it is hard to know if he takes any decissions at all. It may not be his fault.

    Your situation is not unsual, unfortunately, and we lack the information to do a proper judgement (we only have your word, and eve if you posted the chat here, there's nothing to prove that you didn't change it).

    Don't take it personal, I am not saying that you're not telling the truth, but simply stating a fact.

    From my point of view, you have the following options:

    - if you card was indeed cancelled, or if it is your fault and your customer want the hosting, then you have no choice but to suffer the consequences. Pay and move on.

    - If it was not your fault but, let's say, your customer's, and your customer wants the hosting, then he has to pay the redemption.

    - If you were charged on the right time (as it looks you've been, on Dec. 18th) for this particular concept but then charge again for the redemption fee, send them the proof of both payments and ask for a refund of the second. Be careful, it has to be the same concept. If you were charged on the 18th for the hosting but you're paying the redemption for the domain name, the concepts are different.

    - If you think you should claim but they're not lisenting to you, go to a Chamber of Commerce and ask them how to claim officially. There's always official ways to complain that will be registered by the local authority and this will reflect on their statistics about customer satisfaction, information that's public when someone searches for information about a particular company. Also consider moving the hosting and domain registration somewhere else.

    You should also seek legal advice if things get serious. Most of the time an official complaint will do, but you need to keep record of everything and proof of verything you say and do, so use the proper channels to communicate with them. The Chamber of Commerce should be able to tell you with communiation means would be aceptable in a legal court (you will not go that far for this amount, but it is always good to use the proper channels just in case)
    I think it is current limitation of transaction over internet.

    The big companies can do what ever they like,means even if they are wrong there is always danger of getting reverse action and sometimes even being fine through we have done nothing wrong.

    TAKE A LEGAL ACTION,is always eaiser said than done especially against big companies,in cross country matters and in mirco transaction.

    The whole transaction may be of 100$ here but even hiring a good lawyer ,getting all the things and time will cost more than $1000.
    so that is just advice for advice.

    Bigger companies,any how will have lawyers on salary ready to defend even if they are wrong,so at personal level it is not possible to do those things.

    At in many countries if things gets legal,there are not police officers who understands the actual matter,so u may be treat like criminal actually.

    I said limitation as ,it happended to me some years back
    I outsourced a task of 140$,paid through paypal,i even asked my lawyers about the agreement.She said it will take around 100-200$ to prepare an agreement that could be legally produced in court as proof,as it was cross country transaction.
    so it was to cost me more than 350 with that,plus one never feels she will be scamed when she gives the task.

    so i didnt made any documents and believe them.
    later they scammed me,gave me nothing and when i asked them about the task ,they said if i keep on asking about the work and post any thing any where,they will file a case against me in their country.
    As,with out any proof now,i could do nothing.

    so to be frank in most of the cases online transaction has been all about luck ,even in ecommerce,many vendor just pay shipping charges and lose the product as well...
    so feels like somebody need to do something for the betterment and international proof of the transaction and task

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank1 View Post
    I think it is current limitation of transaction over internet.

    The big companies can do what ever they like,means even if they are wrong there is always danger of getting reverse action and sometimes even being fine through we have done nothing wrong.

    TAKE A LEGAL ACTION,is always eaiser said than done especially against big companies,in cross country matters and in mirco transaction.

    The whole transaction may be of 100$ here but even hiring a good lawyer ,getting all the things and time will cost more than $1000.
    so that is just advice for advice.

    Bigger companies,any how will have lawyers on salary ready to defend even if they are wrong,so at personal level it is not possible to do those things.

    At in many countries if things gets legal,there are not police officers who understands the actual matter,so u may be treat like criminal actually.

    I said limitation as ,it happended to me some years back
    I outsourced a task of 140$,paid through paypal,i even asked my lawyers about the agreement.She said it will take around 100-200$ to prepare an agreement that could be legally produced in court as proof,as it was cross country transaction.
    so it was to cost me more than 350 with that,plus one never feels she will be scamed when she gives the task.

    so i didnt made any documents and believe them.
    later they scammed me,gave me nothing and when i asked them about the task ,they said if i keep on asking about the work and post any thing any where,they will file a case against me in their country.
    As,with out any proof now,i could do nothing.

    so to be frank in most of the cases online transaction has been all about luck ,even in ecommerce,many vendor just pay shipping charges and lose the product as well...
    so feels like somebody need to do something for the betterment and international proof of the transaction and task
    I agree with you up to a point.

    Of course, they count on that you will never file a case due to the expenses, but an official complaint to their local Chamber of Commerce is not a case, and most of the time has no expenses but sending them a fax or so.

    And although it is true that outsourcing is dangerous and you can be scammed badly, it is also true that the number of honest e-workers or e-commerces is higher than the scammers.

    So you paid $140 because you needed a job done but you thought that was good value for money. Probably, where you live the job would cost at least twice as much. You took the risk and you lost. Then, you know who you shouldn't trust and maybe, you would change your ways to deal with business (like paying half up front and half when the job is done)

    Regarding a contract, if you outsource the same kind of job, you don't need the lawyer to draft a contract per each case, but just one contract that will cover all your needs. Then, at least, you will have the protection necessary and the expenses are not so high. At least, that's what I did.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard frank1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    I agree with you up to a point.

    Of course, they count on that you will never file a case due to the expenses, but an official complaint to their local Chamber of Commerce is not a case, and most of the time has no expenses but sending them a fax or so.
    This is the main logic most of the big bad companies are carrying now.Even for copyright content issue same applies.If getty images warns you,you remove the things next day.If some xyz photographer warns big websites they give damn,as it is even difficult to prove the copyright for a suppose african photographer in a US court in day to day life.

    So,either forget $150 or go for $1000 case is question here.

    well local chamber,if things are local then it could be settled,but suppose an european country service provider and a asain client or vice versa.In that case,the asian client would need to deliver lots of paper even to convice someone,leave other cost the delivery cost would be more than actual project cost or hosting cost here.

    I am not encouraging others,but i am also a victim of these.So,feel like something needs to change.

    Even,if the paper are sent,the big company wont accept it,they will fight back with their resource and money....so...i have already said "easier said than done"

    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    And although it is true that outsourcing is dangerous and you can be scammed badly, it is also true that the number of honest e-workers or e-commerces is higher than the scammers.

    So you paid $140 because you needed a job done but you thought that was good value for money. Probably, where you live the job would cost at least twice as much. You took the risk and you lost. Then, you know who you shouldn't trust and maybe, you would change your ways to deal with business (like paying half up front and half when the job is done)
    yes,but it still validates my point that current e-transaction things are insufficient to protect users.Now a days there are dispute filing in paypal,some protection in some freelance site but it still is not even satisfactory at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    Regarding a contract, if you outsource the same kind of job, you don't need the lawyer to draft a contract per each case, but just one contract that will cover all your needs. Then, at least, you will have the protection necessary and the expenses are not so high. At least, that's what I did.
    I think this applies,if service provider and giver are from same place.Still what is considered illegal in one country may not be viewed as bad practice or even legally banned act in another country.So i feel it is not universally applicable.
    Thanks
    just pointing out some realities.

  9. #9
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    Legislation will always be insufficient as it alwasy go after reality. Laws are only created when something has happened and no to prevent.

    You have valid points but contracting someone, overseas or locally, is always a risk. You can only do your homework and find out as much as possible about that particular company and yet, even the most reputable company can fail.

    Things need to change sure, but right now this is what we had to deal with and the only way doing it is doing our homework.

    Regarding the contract, you're right, each country is different and have its own legislation, but the general aspects of most laws are similar, so unless you encounter something really specific a general contract is valid in most countries... and yet, you specifically indicate the country where all disputes will be filed and therefore, that's the legislation you really need to comply with.

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    I can understand your approach. But I suppose you need to understand the market as well. That is quite difficult to find guarantees for something long-term.


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