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  1. #26
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    It just doesnt sit right with me to use a forum signature to attract visitors to my own website especially a forum that has given so much for free, it would seem like a doublecross or stealing visitors and this would just not be my style
    If you look at it that way then any link that people follow to find your site is stealing visitors from the site that displayed the link.

    If you link to pages that complement and add value to the posts that you make then you are adding value to the forum and not stealing from it.
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  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    Well, the forum is mainly for the purpose of communicating in the field of web design, not a forum for only GC.

    I hang out in GC a lot and love it, but that does not mean that I value that above all else. The fact that it is a minor section of the forum is reflected in the fact that posts do not count there

    It is also not meant as a put down or critique, it is just a fact. Simple as that.

    I do not think that people showing their links in the signatures are using SitePoint (only the stupid spammers of course). The forum is set up in such a way that the participants are the forum, and pointing to what one does is just another way of showing who you are.

    People who do post things that might not reflect well on their business are just making a mistake. If you are true to yourself, there is never a problem with this cross over.
    I dont think you see where i'm coming from - who is stating that this is GC forum only? I didnt... but i do believe that GC is an integral part to any community based forum - you said it yourself, when we all go around posting and doing some work and researching on other forums you have the luxury of coming back to GC and relaxing, to me this is VIP, how else can you get to know people on a non professional level and have fun - plus you build a network of contacts and again this can be good for business - if you were to post on topics like programming and go OT - people dont like you hijacking their threads etc, so GC is the place for all that stuff....its important and IMO it is very much part of the real forum

    With regard to posts not counting in GC, that is understandable - if that were the case i'd have a million billion quadrillion posts - and all from the person above you thread etc.. but having said this, I still think that GC posts count, it doesnt have to be reflected as a number to feel like a contributing part of the community

    As for using SP, It depends on the signature and individual...

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Just as a side note, there's marketing and there's bad marketing. Visits, clicks and visitors are all good but they are not what it's all about - getting clients and making sales is. That very well reflects on many signatures and it's just bad marketing, sometimes nothing but spam. But that's another story.
    sure is

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Sure. Especially if you prefer local clients.
    I prefer all sorts of clients/customers saul, who doesnt? There are ways to advertise, for me this just isnt an option, thats just my personal preference and ive displayed my reasons for this however outrageous they are to u

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    I don't think SitePoint suffers from visitor leakage through signatures

    I can understand your sentiments of giving and receiving, but I think it all equals out on itself. If you don't give and just take, there won't be much interest in your signature anyway.
    Point taken saul, but as they say, u never bite the hand that feeds you

    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    If you look at it that way then any link that people follow to find your site is stealing visitors from the site that displayed the link.

    If you link to pages that complement and add value to the posts that you make then you are adding value to the forum and not stealing from it.
    I understand what you're saying fegall.. I have promoted my site on various other sites and I have linked to them also BUT these sites were specifically set up for this purpose, they offered this service - to me this is fair I didnt just join up and post for a few years and think hmm i put alot into this forum think i'll promote my own work through it.... that is not my style - but like i've said many times before I think I am just old fashioned I guess in my mindset

    With regard to your last point; why cant you just copy and paste the reference material and leave it on SP as part of your valued posts - why promote links off the site?

  3. #28
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    I think I am just old fashioned I guess in my mindset
    Probably not... I can bet if you joined some forums with the idea to promote your site, you would not feel that way about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    With regard to your last point; why cant you just copy and paste the reference material and leave it on SP as part of your valued posts - why promote links off the site?
    I think they do to an extent, but you can't write a novel for each post you make.
    Saul

  4. #29
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Mizzy, I think that you have a major misunderstanding about the signature links and how most people are using them.

    The owners of this forum set it up so member signatures can be used as links to their own sites. Those links can be used as networking tools, just like a business card is used when you go to a party and hand one out to some person you just met. You connect with people that way. Most people are also not divided into two different entities, one being business the other one being personal. I for one have no devision lines.

    Your personal feeling about how to look at this issue is just that: personal. Just leave it at that and let everybody else do the signatures the way they like to.

    And to pointing to a link in a signature as a way to explain something: that is the most economical way to do so. That is what the net is, a big pile of links. Why should things be copied and pasted when they already exist?
    Ulrike
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  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Probably not... I can bet if you joined some forums with the idea to promote your site, you would not feel that way about it.
    See, thats the thing Saul, I wouldn't join any forum with the intention of promoting my business website - I'm a member of a few other forums and I dont promote my business site either even though I contribute alot with computer help and vid tutorials - it's just the way I am

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    I think they do to an extent, but you can't write a novel for each post you make.
    why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    Mizzy, I think that you have a major misunderstanding about the signature links and how most people are using them.
    Not at all Datura, perhaps you have the misunderstanding about me

    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    The owners of this forum set it up so member signatures can be used as links to their own sites. Those links can be used as networking tools, just like a business card is used when you go to a party and hand one out to some person you just met. You connect with people that way. Most people are also not divided into two different entities, one being business the other one being personal. I for one have no devision lines.

    Your personal feeling about how to look at this issue is just that: personal. Just leave it at that and let everybody else do the signatures the way they like to.
    Of course my feeling about this is personal but also as a business owner my view is also on a professional level - perhaps you have forgotten that?

    In addition, as I have already said before I am not out to change anything I just wanted to discuss something I found interesting and I enjoy reading everyone's comments and ideas on why they choose to use the signature option - I don't appreciate being told to "leave it" Datura, I created this thread to discuss something that required a bit more brain power than the usual threads that are in GC - It has also given me the opportunity to interact with members I have not spoken to before and as I stated before it has given me an insight into how other people view the signature option vs. my own...

    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    And to pointing to a link in a signature as a way to explain something: that is the most economical way to do so. That is what the net is, a big pile of links. Why should things be copied and pasted when they already exist?
    Why create content on another platform, when a platform for those ideas is already in place? Just doesn't make sense to me

  6. #31
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    this is the general chat forum, why advertise or visit this forum if ur here for business purposes only
    SitePoint is a business website, it's a community which is entirely based around the creation and production of websites. Whether it's related to the books, blogs, articles or even this forum which is predominantly aimed at people wanting to have discussions or questions answered about a particular element of the process. The fact remains that the community (while having general sections) is predominantly aimed at a certain type of audience, therefore as such people who come here are either in the industry or want to have issues resolved in relation to it. It's a moot point that this particular section is for social chat, the forum (which signatures apply entirely to) as a whole therefore can be assumed to be business related.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    It would never cross my mind to ever use SP to promote my work or my business as I view each as a separate entity...It just doesnt sit right with me to use a forum signature to attract visitors to my own website especially a forum that has given so much for free, it would seem like a doublecross or stealing visitors and this would just not be my style...
    That doesn't make sense, how would signatures qualify as stealing links? It doesn't steal traffic away from SitePoint, people visit sites and then return, the fact of the matter is that some websites advertised in signatures offer something people may find useful, it's not so much about blatant advertising, it's about letting people get to know you better through the places you have created for the purpose of collaborating all of your activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    plus you build a network of contacts and again this can be good for business
    Ah but see now your crossing the boundary between social and business, signature links are about networking, it's about contributing to a collaborative project, meeting people as a result and being able to let them find you on the web if they feel like they want to get to know you further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    Those links can be used as networking tools, just like a business card is used when you go to a party and hand one out to some person you just met. You connect with people that way. Most people are also not divided into two different entities, one being business the other one being personal. I for one have no devision lines.
    I agree entirely, the divide between social and professional is non existent in my view, I contribute to this forum socially IN a professional capacity but in my own personal time... if what mizwizzy said was true then it would be a paradox me using this service personally in a professional capacity. I do like what you said about it being like a business card, it really is. If someone posts junk on the forum, people won't look at their signature, if people post high quality content their more likely to have people take the extra step of viewing the "business card" and following it to see what else is going on

  7. #32
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    Why create content on another platform, when a platform for those ideas is already in place? Just doesn't make sense to me
    Explain this to me please.
    Ulrike
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  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    SitePoint is a business website, it's a community which is entirely based around the creation and production of websites. Whether it's related to the books, blogs, articles or even this forum which is predominantly aimed at people wanting to have discussions or questions answered about a particular element of the process. The fact remains that the community (while having general sections) is predominantly aimed at a certain type of audience, therefore as such people who come here are either in the industry or want to have issues resolved in relation to it. It's a moot point that this particular section is for social chat, the forum (which signatures apply entirely to) as a whole therefore can be assumed to be business related.
    My words above your post were pretaining to something saul had said to me - i did not mean outright that the GC forum was not for business purposes - I was merely stating that theres a time and place to promote business whether its on a forum or meeting or party or whatever, but I thank you for also acknowledging that the GC is also part of the "real forum"...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    That doesn't make sense, how would signatures qualify as stealing links? It doesn't steal traffic away from SitePoint, people visit sites and then return, the fact of the matter is that some websites advertised in signatures offer something people may find useful, it's not so much about blatant advertising, it's about letting people get to know you better through the places you have created for the purpose of collaborating all of your activities.
    Well your on the forum, the other visitors are on the forum, your link is in ur signature on the forum, a visitor on the forum comes along and *clicK* off they go to ur site - they are no longer on the forum, but are on ur site instead

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    Ah but see now your crossing the boundary between social and business, signature links are about networking, it's about contributing to a collaborative project, meeting people as a result and being able to let them find you on the web if they feel like they want to get to know you further.
    Is there a boundary between social and business? I've been to network meetings where both elements were at play

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    I agree entirely, the divide between social and professional is non existent in my view, I contribute to this forum socially IN a professional capacity but in my own personal time... if what mizwizzy said was true then it would be a paradox me using this service personally in a professional capacity. I do like what you said about it being like a business card, it really is. If someone posts junk on the forum, people won't look at their signature, if people post high quality content their more likely to have people take the extra step of viewing the "business card" and following it to see what else is going on
    Im glad you mentioned this, isnt there an option to allow vcard downloads in ur preferences on sp yet still people promote within their signatures...with so many options available it just defies belief sometimes - where do u draw the line like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    Explain this to me please.
    Again, this has been taken out of context..theres too much cutting off of posts and the original reference is lost along the way....But anyway...what I meant was - lets say you start off posting on a forum, you're good at what you do and u start to create help guides and post them on the forum, then u decide to put them on ur own external website and link to them in ur signature, to me this is redundant why bother doing it as there was already a platform in place, i.e the original forum where u start posting before... to contain links to external projects or materials is all fine and well if they are included as part of a post, I just dont see the point of containing them all the time in a signature - however if the links are from the existing forum this is perfectly acceptable considering you are only redirecting the user to another place on the forum - it's not like you are bringing them off to something else.....

    Sidenote:
    Can I just say before theres a "signature lynch mob" sent out to get me lol Im not saying that x y or z should or shouldnt have something in their signature - I wanted to talk about why you use a signature, discuss the points of view as they are posted and enjoy the discussion - I'm not out to cause upset amongst those of u who do use the signature option but its nice to hear why you use it and even nicer when people can be mature enough to debate their reasons

  9. #34
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post

    Again, this has been taken out of context..theres too much cutting off of posts and the original reference is lost along the way....But anyway...what I meant was - lets say you start off posting on a forum, you're good at what you do and u start to create help guides and post them on the forum, then u decide to put them on ur own external website and link to them in ur signature, to me this is redundant why bother doing it as there was already a platform in place, i.e the original forum where u start posting before... to contain links to external projects or materials is all fine and well if they are included as part of a post, I just dont see the point of containing them all the time in a signature - however if the links are from the existing forum this is perfectly acceptable considering you are only redirecting the user to another place on the forum - it's not like you are bringing them off to something else.....
    The thing with posting in a forum is that thoughts can not be read, so an explanation must be given so people do understand something in the right context. I have a hard time with that as well, but so it is

    I think that there are few people who post something and then take that post and publish it on their website, I think that it might be rather the other way around.

    But let us say a person has a blog and/or a site with explanations on certain subject matters and they link to that as a relevant contribution to answer a question, that is just fine.

    Basically each person has a different reason to include or exclude some links. That is all. Obviously you can judge all of that from your own view… It does not change the fact though that the signatures are valuable in many ways.
    Ulrike
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  10. #35
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy conradical's Avatar
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    Very good post. I will visit more often.

  11. #36
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    mizwizzy, to view signature links you need to be a member, and people who have enough energy to sign up and become a member and view posts are highly likely to return to a website, while the focus may shift to the other website it's neither enforced to go there therefore the incentive to return and continue reading the forum still exists. I've never read a single usability study which suggested "off-site" linking directly contributes to a total return failure.

    PS: You do realise vCard's are intended for adding details in an address book rather than directly visiting or using the information right?

  12. #37
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    with so many options available it just defies belief sometimes - where do u draw the line like?
    It's just that signatures happen to be the most effective option out of those, by far.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    Sidenote:
    Can I just say before theres a "signature lynch mob" sent out to get me lol Im not saying that x y or z should or shouldnt have something in their signature - I wanted to talk about why you use a signature, discuss the points of view as they are posted and enjoy the discussion - I'm not out to cause upset amongst those of u who do use the signature option but its nice to hear why you use it and even nicer when people can be mature enough to debate their reasons
    They're out to get you, Hazel.
    Saul

  13. #38
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    With regard to your last point; why cant you just copy and paste the reference material and leave it on SP as part of your valued posts - why promote links off the site?
    Why should I work for free - how am I supposed to pay all my bills then or should I be expecting everyone else to work for free as well. If that is the case then what is money for?
    Stephen J Chapman

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  14. #39
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    The thing with posting in a forum is that thoughts can not be read, so an explanation must be given so people do understand something in the right context. I have a hard time with that as well, but so it is

    I think that there are few people who post something and then take that post and publish it on their website, I think that it might be rather the other way around.

    But let us say a person has a blog and/or a site with explanations on certain subject matters and they link to that as a relevant contribution to answer a question, that is just fine.

    Basically each person has a different reason to include or exclude some links. That is all. Obviously you can judge all of that from your own view… It does not change the fact though that the signatures are valuable in many ways.
    It is easy to get muddled up with what people say online and sometimes if you're having a bad day its easy to transfer that into what you read as well - it happens to us all - me included I dont dispute that some find the use of signatures as a valuable promotion tool - it's just the thought of using it on SP that bugs me a bit, speaking from my own experience on SP even though ive been a member for years I just wouldn't use it as a leverage tool or gain any promotion out of it - that is due to my own personal experiences on SP, I see it in terms of having learned alot from the site and the members and to me theres nothing more I can ask for - I am still learning as I'm going along and I will continue not to use my signature for self gain - I know that not every1 has that mindset and some are offering references to additional materials that may help them with problems they have, that is great - but I just personally would not do it, I would rather post the content on the forum and leave it at that, if the person wanted to know more my contact information would be on my profile and they could take it from there....thats how i see it but i do respect your opinion and everyone elses on their reasons for using their signature

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    mizwizzy, to view signature links you need to be a member, and people who have enough energy to sign up and become a member and view posts are highly likely to return to a website, while the focus may shift to the other website it's neither enforced to go there therefore the incentive to return and continue reading the forum still exists. I've never read a single usability study which suggested "off-site" linking directly contributes to a total return failure.

    PS: You do realise vCard's are intended for adding details in an address book rather than directly visiting or using the information right?
    maybe I'll write a book on it for you alex - no seriously I know theres nothing enforced on anyone and the option to not view signatures is also there for people to choose *thankfully* but i'm just saying that the profile is a great place for all that information, personally I would click a profile first before I go to any website, but that is just me - the vcard, hmm well research tells me this is an electronic business card? - hmm where do u store your client contact information? On little illuminous post-its stuck around ur monitor

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    It's just that signatures happen to be the most effective option out of those, by far.
    what...for hits? *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    They're out to get you, Hazel.
    get in line ah no just a bit of banter...

    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    Why should I work for free - how am I supposed to pay all my bills then or should I be expecting everyone else to work for free as well. If that is the case then what is money for?
    im not suggesting you work for free felgall, its interesting that you see your posts as work on SP? perhaps im mistaken or picked this up wrong?

    the money is for me btw, its all mine

  15. #40
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    maybe I'll write a book on it for you alex - no seriously I know theres nothing enforced on anyone and the option to not view signatures is also there for people to choose *thankfully* but i'm just saying that the profile is a great place for all that information, personally I would click a profile first before I go to any website, but that is just me - the vcard, hmm well research tells me this is an electronic business card? - hmm where do u store your client contact information? On little illuminous post-its stuck around ur monitor
    The profiles on this forum are not really of a high quality level to be able to actually give useful information, the links which are offered can only be a single generic website address and the information held in the profile is very limited (to the point of ambiguity and irrelevence)... which is probably why the majority of people never view user profiles. Honestly the profiles aren't appropriate for such information, they just give generic information which unlike a signature has no personable relevence.

    As for vCard information you are correct, however what your "research" didn't tell you was that when you download a vCard, the most effect it will have for you is to take the information held within and add it to your default address book (EG: Outlook), the information itself is not formatted in such a way that it's realistically usable in order to provide current information, it just acts as a mechanism to "save" some contact details about an individual.

  16. #41
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    im not suggesting you work for free felgall, its interesting that you see your posts as work on SP? perhaps im mistaken or picked this up wrong?
    You misunderstood.

    The web pages linked in my signature provide me with a significant fraction of my income. Were I to publish all that info on SP instead of just linking to it in my sig then I wouldn't be earning that income from the sites where I currently have it posted. With one of the sites the agreement is that they have exclusive rights to its online publication and 50% of any income I get from using it offline and so I am not allowed to post the same info to SP even though i wrote it in the first place and if I posted it to SP instead of the other site then there goes most of my income.
    Stephen J Chapman

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  17. #42
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    The profiles on this forum are not really of a high quality level to be able to actually give useful information, the links which are offered can only be a single generic website address and the information held in the profile is very limited (to the point of ambiguity and irrelevence)... which is probably why the majority of people never view user profiles. Honestly the profiles aren't appropriate for such information, they just give generic information which unlike a signature has no personable relevence.

    As for vCard information you are correct, however what your "research" didn't tell you was that when you download a vCard, the most effect it will have for you is to take the information held within and add it to your default address book (EG: Outlook), the information itself is not formatted in such a way that it's realistically usable in order to provide current information, it just acts as a mechanism to "save" some contact details about an individual.
    Ur entitled to display your opinion on the profiles issue - i respect that and i do take ur reasoning on board - but im still not convinced that its very limited - the new custom option on your profile page allows visitor messaging and customising the profile - i see lots of pages that are full of comments and stuff, lets face it we're all nosy at times - people do check out profiles and I dont think its such a small number as you're suggesting

    the vcard - i dont want to get into the nitty gritty about this - but what else would a business card do but provide you with said contact information which u would transfer into ur address book whether its sitting on ur desk or on ur pc...? Are you saying that maybe the information is not up to date?

    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    You misunderstood.

    The web pages linked in my signature provide me with a significant fraction of my income. Were I to publish all that info on SP instead of just linking to it in my sig then I wouldn't be earning that income from the sites where I currently have it posted. With one of the sites the agreement is that they have exclusive rights to its online publication and 50&#37; of any income I get from using it offline and so I am not allowed to post the same info to SP even though i wrote it in the first place and if I posted it to SP instead of the other site then there goes most of my income.
    You're right, i dont understand - lets see, you have posted info on various sites and u earn some $$$'s from that, you promote those links to those sites in ur profile but do not post any of the content u wrote urself on those sites on SP? is that it?

    Well as I said before if that is the case, thats ur decision and ur entitled to that...my views still do not change with regard to the promotion of oneself in signature links regardless if they have references to help others or not - a profile is more suiting to promotion than a signature IF you have to promote that is...these are my opinions but thanks for clarifying

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    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    but im still not convinced that its very limited
    Now wait a minute, we're talking marketing here. Which do you think is more expensive, an ad on the front page of a newspaper (as an example) or the one on page 57, and why?

    You can feel what you want but, it all comes down to technical facts. Profiles get just a fraction of exposure that signatures get. If that is not convincing enough, I don't know what is.
    Saul

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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Now wait a minute, we're talking marketing here. Which do you think is more expensive, an ad on the front page of a newspaper (as an example) or the one on page 57, and why?

    You can feel what you want but, it all comes down to technical facts. Profiles get just a fraction of exposure that signatures get. If that is not convincing enough, I don't know what is.
    Dont tell me to wait a minute

    It depends on the newspaper, what you're advertising and alot of other factors that im not getting into look...everyone that ive talked to hates advertising whether its ads to click or advertising within blogs or forums or anything, people just do not like it - even when u watch tv, do u long for the adverts between breaks of a film/programme? Im only saying that the profile option is not limited regardless in comparison to the signature option, i mean i dont know where you guys are getting all these statistics on signatures being more effective than profiles? Either way, why have a profile option in the first place on vbulletin? why even spend time to incorporate addons like the customisable option if it wasnt popular? I dont know..u know im just saying u dont always have to use the signature option to promote urself, there are other ways of doing so without including it in every post you make

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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    It depends on the newspaper, what you're advertising and alot of other factors
    It really does not. People see the front page ad even if they don't read the newspaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    look...everyone that ive talked to hates advertising whether its ads to click or advertising within blogs or forums or anything, people just do not like it - even when u watch tv, do u long for the adverts between breaks of a film/programme?
    And how many times have you bought something you saw on tv as opposed to the similar product, perhaps even better standing next on the shelves?

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    Im only saying that the profile option is not limited regardless in comparison to the signature option
    It really is.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    i mean i dont know where you guys are getting all these statistics on signatures being more effective than profiles?
    An educated guess. The signature is displayed several times in every thread you post. The profile is only linked from the threads. Which one do you think gets more impressions?

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    Either way, why have a profile option in the first place on vbulletin? why even spend time to incorporate addons like the customisable option if it wasnt popular?
    Programmer Joe: Hey, Jack, looks like this Web 2.0 thingy is cool, everyone is talking about it, maybe we should be cool too and add it to vbulletin?

    Programmer Jack: *sips beer* Sure Joe, *burp* we want to be cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    I dont know..u know im just saying u dont always have to use the signature option to promote urself, there are other ways of doing so without including it in every post you make
    Sure, it's always your prerogative. But it's hands down the most effective way to promote yourself on the forums nonetheless, and the only reason you don't use it is only personal preference. So is mine. Why look for technical reasons which don't exist?
    Saul

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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    It really does not. People see the front page ad even if they don't read the newspaper.
    to be honest i dont even read newspapers and if i was looking for specialist services i wouldnt be checking newspapers either id use a business directory - people do see the front page first but rarely is a company taking up the entire page its usually the top stories or whatever has people talking etc... - how did we even get onto newspapers now lol

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    And how many times have you bought something you saw on tv as opposed to the similar product, perhaps even better standing next on the shelves?
    ive never see an advert on tv that would make me want to buy something or influenced my decision on purchasing something - when adverts are on they are mute or i put the sky text on til the programme/film comes back that im watching are you one of those qvc viewers saul, tell the truth

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    An educated guess. The signature is displayed several times in every thread you post. The profile is only linked from the threads. Which one do you think gets more impressions?
    BUT for every post you make ur name is also there - so is the option to click it and view your public profile IMO i would say the profile as you can interact with the person also and post on their profile page but again thats my "educated" opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Programmer Joe: Hey, Jack, looks like this Web 2.0 thingy is cool, everyone is talking about it, maybe we should be cool too and add it to vbulletin?

    Programmer Jack: *sips beer* Sure Joe, *burp* we want to be cool.
    are you saying that that is what SP did?

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Sure, it's always your prerogative. But it's hands down the most effective way to promote yourself on the forums nonetheless, and the only reason you don't use it is only personal preference. So is mine. Why look for technical reasons which don't exist?
    *sigh* what is with people....why do people think my reasons are only on a personal level...is it because the majority of my posts are on GC? tut tut..

    im not lookin for technical reasons either, im just stating that there is always an alternative and sometimes u dont always have to get something back after you contribute, it should be reward enough to help people...as an IT trainer, I have helped and tutored people before for free and expect nothing in return, the reward is knowing that I have passed on some knowledge and they are for the better because of it - its the same principle with sp for me, its on a personal level yes but also professional

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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    to be honest i dont even read newspapers and if i was looking for specialist services i wouldnt be checking newspapers either id use a business directory - people do see the front page first but rarely is a company taking up the entire page its usually the top stories or whatever has people talking etc... - how did we even get onto newspapers now lol
    I just gave an example of how exposure is important in advertising in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    ive never see an advert on tv that would make me want to buy something or influenced my decision on purchasing something - when adverts are on they are mute or i put the sky text on til the programme/film comes back that im watching are you one of those qvc viewers saul, tell the truth
    Yeah right. Quick, name 5 brands you have products of and tell me you didn't see any ads for most of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    so is the option to click it and view your public profile
    Did you know that options hurt sales?

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    are you saying that that is what SP did?
    SP didn't create vBulletin. But they eat grasshoppers, so I dunno

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    *sigh* what is with people....why do people think my reasons are only on a personal level...is it because the majority of my posts are on GC? tut tut..
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    im not lookin for technical reasons either, im just stating that there is always an alternative and sometimes u dont always have to get something back after you contribute, it should be reward enough to help people...as an IT trainer, I have helped and tutored people before for free and expect nothing in return, the reward is knowing that I have passed on some knowledge and they are for the better because of it - its the same principle with sp for me, its on a personal level yes but also professional
    It really shows that you have never tried to promote your business through forums and never had to deal with the challenges it brings. If only it was so easy to get that exposure that you could afford to hide under profiles or other obscure sections.
    Saul

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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy mizwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Yeah right. Quick, name 5 brands you have products of and tell me you didn't see any ads for most of them.
    sure they are advertised on tv, but I dont see something on tv and think wow great i'll get that next time i see it.....thats not how I work for example: my laptop - i wanted to purchase one...sure you see adverts on tv, some even look good with the spec i want etc..but i wouldnt go into the store and look for that offer etc.. id go into many stores and shop around and see what my best purchase could be - its the same with anything i buy, i never think of an advert ive just seen its just go out and shop around basically

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Did you know that options hurt sales?
    where are you coming from with that saul?

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    SP didn't create vBulletin. But they eat grasshoppers, so I dunno
    but they chose to update etc..regardless of that...im saying that if the profile wasnt popular why update it - sure you said its because ppl want to be cool - whatever - but i still maintain its popularity over the signature

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Yes
    disappointing

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    It really shows that you have never tried to promote your business through forums and never had to deal with the challenges it brings. If only it was so easy to get that exposure that you could afford to hide under profiles or other obscure sections.
    lol @ obscure...how can it be challenging? you just put ur link in ur signature, the constant posting does the rest for you - promotion wise...how is that difficult?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    sure they are advertised on tv, but I dont see something on tv and think wow great i'll get that next time i see it.....thats not how I work for example: my laptop - i wanted to purchase one...sure you see adverts on tv, some even look good with the spec i want etc..but i wouldnt go into the store and look for that offer etc.. id go into many stores and shop around and see what my best purchase could be - its the same with anything i buy, i never think of an advert ive just seen its just go out and shop around basically
    But the point is you end up with buying a brand you knew before hand - HP and not Joe's Laptops.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    where are you coming from with that saul?
    Marketing 101.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    but they chose to update etc..regardless of that...im saying that if the profile wasnt popular why update it - sure you said its because ppl want to be cool - whatever - but i still maintain its popularity over the signature
    They update software because of numerous fixes and other improvements, I don't think profiles was ever the main reason to update SPF.

    A concept of profiles is popular in general, but I don't think it lives up in forums. There is some minor activity, but nothing like the main parts of the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizwizzy View Post
    lol @ obscure...how can it be challenging? you just put ur link in ur signature, the constant posting does the rest for you - promotion wise...how is that difficult?
    You want me to give you a lecture on forum marketing now or what?
    Saul

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    mizwizzy, if profiles allowed custom fields where you could place and organize whatever you want to appear on the page then maybe it would be useful... however as it currently stands you have little to no control over what information you can place on the website, like it or not we are talking technical facts here, and profile pages on these forums have a few fields you can fill in with a limited stock of information which has no real relevance to most people on a forum. An example of this is the imposed limit of a single website link (which you cannot edit the link text beyond the default "homepage" function). Signatures allow you to have a small but highly customisable space which you can link or place text of which profiles simply do not allow. It's as simple as that, you can bash advertising all you like but the fact is it's (in most cases) not blatant spam, it's a customisable space for people to give a unique piece of themselves too. Just because it's highly visible is besides the point. And unless you have a proposed solution to the technical faults in the way generic profile systems work, there's really no point you making any claim to the idea that there's a viable alternative to signatures, because as things stand... there isn't.


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