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  1. #1
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Changing from double opt in to opt in

    My newsletter is currently double opt in but no one is confirming their subscription.

    I think that it is simply too complicated and they do not understand how to do it. The confirmation is in the form of a URL they must visit. Previously I had a reply type confirmation, and maybe 10-20% replied. Now I recently switched software and since then my list has almost stopped growing (even shrunk).

    In the week since I switched I've gotten 1100 unconfirmed addresses and I think my overall list size has stayed almost the same. I'm guessing maybe 1 in 50 confirms their subscription.

    So I'm thinking about going opt in, my list currently has 13.5k subscribers, and so with opt in I should grow extremely fast, especially in the fall when school starts up again.

    Actually yes I just confirmed it, my list has shrunk by 250 members since I switched.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  2. #2
    SitePoint Addict w3exit's Avatar
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    Though double-optin is ideal but most publishers are beginning to switch from double to single optin. I had published a number of newsletters and single had never gave me a problem.

    Unless you are selling ads and double makes you look good, I don't feel it's necessary - it'll only reduce your signups.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
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    Aspen: Just to clarify, with the system you are using...

    The user enters their email on your site.
    The user gets a confirmation email.
    The user clicks the link in the confirmation email and (assuming that page loads) they are subscribed.

    Interesting that you've had a big drop-off with that method... I've always found that easier than sending a blank email or an email with a code in the body or whatever.

    Perhaps a compromise to double opt in would be opt in, offer out. Immediatly after subscibing, send them a 'thank you' with a ink to unsubscribe (with appropriate copy).

    On the other hand, I'd be interested in someone doing a study on what the heck is going with all those missing confirmations. What part of the method of confirmation too complicated? Was the copy in the confirmation email too complex? Was there some sort of technical hurdle (like a link split on two lines or email apps that don't support links) that is making it difficult for some users? Or did a lot of people never really want to supscribe and the slightest cause for second thought was enough to discourage 80+% of them?

    If there's research on the topic, I'd be interested to hear about it
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  4. #4
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Yes, thats how my system works.

    I don't know what the problem is. I tested the confirmation email in outlook and in a web interface and it worked fine.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  5. #5
    HI silver trophy Silverado4x4's Avatar
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    Did you tell them to confirm their subscription (after they entered their e-mail), and make sure the e-mail looked like it was clearly coming from your site?

    Anyway, there shouldn't be any harm in changing to single opt-in. If anything, it'll just make everyone's lives easier.

  6. #6
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    Actually the organization that controls black list for email routing mail-abuse.org requires double optin in their guidelines.

    I think that a reasonable double opt-in rate is 70-75%

    The benifints of double opt in is that you know that you will be sending only to real email addresses - no bounced emails. Bounced emails create alot of unwanted traffic on the Internet.

    Read the guidelines for list management here:

    http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/manage.html


    Quote:

    Permission of new subscribers must be fully verified before mailings commence. This is usually accomplished by means of an email message sent to the subscriber to which s/he must reply, or containing a URL which s/he must visit, in order to complete the subscription. However it is implemented, a fundamental requirement of all lists is for verification of all new subscriptions

  7. #7
    HI silver trophy Silverado4x4's Avatar
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    That may be true, but what does mail-abuse.org do? I've never heard of them. I'm not saying they don't do anythin, just because I haven't heard of them, but I've run a 220,000 subscriber list, and have known many webmasters with several hundred thousand subscribers (up to millions), and no one has mentioned that website before.

    If bounces get to hard to stay up with (and I doubt this ever happens), you could always sign up with a company with a Lyris license such as NetAtlantic. The new subscribers should outweigh the costs of the list.

  8. #8
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I changed to single opt in and my list is growing again, by seemingly 100 people a day or more, and this a low traffic time of year for me.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  9. #9
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Single opt in has scope for abuse.
    As ITstudent mentioned, the double opt-in rate is around 70%. Surely, something seems wrong!

    What is the your opt in url?

  10. #10
    SitePoint Addict w3exit's Avatar
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    way to go aspen!

  11. #11
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    Mail-abouse.org have pioneered the concept of black lists. If your domain or IP is added to blacklist for mail abuse, then most of emails sent from your server will never be forwarded by other mail servers and will never reach many of your subscribers.

    Many big hosting companies are subscribed to mail-abuse.org to dynamically the sender against their black lists.

    I mean companies like Excite will not deliver email to your mailbox if the sender is on the black list.

    RBL stands for real time blacklist. Most mail servers can be configured to look in the RBL and reject all mail from servers that are on the RBL.

  12. #12
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    If you have a large list, it isn't as important, but if you run a smaller list, I think single opt-in with an easy way to unsubscribe is more than fine. I use this on my site and the ease of subscriptions for users was one of the main reasons I left Topica which had a complicated double-opt-in process.

  13. #13
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I don't even advertise in my newsletter, I only post occasional ads for my own site or for a deal at amazon.com. I'm really not forseeing any problem with it. I don't think anyone can accuse me of falsely subscribing people to make money. The list is a free service for the visitors to my site.

    To the person who asked where my subscribe form is. Its on every page of my literature site at the bottom, there is also a cookie controlled popup that'll show on your first visit.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
    Featured Article: Free Comprehensive SEO Guide
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