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  1. #1
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    Help needed... Solution appreciated!

    I designed a site for a local business in the area... They wanted an online portfolio displaying pictures they've done (they're a photography studio). Anyways, the portfolio does NOT display in Netscape 4.x/6.x/7.x...

    Originally, the scroller was setup in a layer within a table cell... I removed the layer, and put the JavaScript scroller directly into the cell. It still won't display in NS. I'm out of ideas, and really don't know what to do. The client wants to keep the "scroll" effect, but they also want to eradicate the display problem.

    Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. The link to the site is: www.heavenstudios.ca/portfolio.html.


    Thank you,
    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  2. #2
    morphine for a wooden leg randem's Avatar
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    While they have gotten better, DynamicDrive is notorious for having too many IE-only scripts...

    My opinion is kinda harsh, but if you don't like it, tough. It's the web so I can say what I want.

    I'm a web developer, and a very reputable one at that. I work very hard to learn the things I know, and to translate that knowledge and skill into a career.

    1. It really irritates me when guys like you sell someone your services as a developer, and then download scripts from places like DynamicDrive and toss them into web sites and get paid for them. By the way... have you bothered to find out whether or not you are permitted by DD's copyright to earn money from their scripts?

    2. The web is not just a bunch of Windows users. Ignoring Netscape and other browsers is not only disillusional and arrogant, but also really foolish. Would you like to know what market I'm really cleaning up in right now? Netscape compatibility. Why? Because AOL is switching to NS for their browser, and that means 50% of the US market will no longer use IE. Mac is also releasing a Mozilla-based browser. The bottom line is standards. Find 'em, read 'em, learn 'em, and use 'em. Standars-compliant code works in most browsers most of the time. And it says a lot about the developer.

    3. Instead of looking for help here, why not go to the source first? Ask DD to add Netscape compatibility to their script. And then, if you succeed, tell them to try Opera, too. Opera's got a lot of users you don't want to leave out.

    4. If you're going to sell your services, perform them. Get a book, search Google, I don't care... but LEARN JAVASCRIPT. Then perhaps you can fix this thing yourself.


    I'm quite certain that I will have hurt someone's feelings by now. And no doubt there will be some upset replies to this by grammatically challenged people who can't form sentences, but still manage to spell the necessary four-letter words people love to say.

    But you know what? I don't care. Flame me, ban me, hate me. I work too hard to help some freeloader make money off of someone else's hard work.

    All flames will be filtered and deleted, so don't waste your time.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Member Mara's Avatar
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    Hi Frank,
    While Randem has his points AND a solid soap-box to stand on...that doesn't change the fact that you are HERE (in this nice safe community of knowledgeable people) looking for help.
    My experience is that this IS a HELPFUL community so...please don't let Randem scare you.
    When I went to DD and looked at the script, they do specifically say:
    Browsers other than IE 4+ or NS 4 will simply see nothing
    ...
    So, I would stay way away from it and look for something more generic.
    I'll look around a little and see if I can find anything.
    Good Luck,
    Mara

  4. #4
    SitePoint Member Mara's Avatar
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    Randem...
    3. Instead of looking for help here, why not go to the source first? Ask DD to add Netscape compatibility to their script. And then, if you succeed, tell them to try Opera, too. Opera's got a lot of users you don't want to leave out.
    DEFINITELY not in the community spirit, are we?
    All flames will be filtered and deleted, so don't waste your time.
    hmm...I wonder...somehow YOURS it through
    Mara

  5. #5
    web daemon jorasmi's Avatar
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    randem is right. i admit i dowload ready-made scripts, but i don't make money out of it. anyway, the scripts that you downloaded are not based on the standard that's why it doesn't appear on the browsers that you mentioned.

  6. #6
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by randem
    My opinion is kinda harsh, but if you don't like it, tough. It's the web so I can say what I want.
    Actually, this is SitePoint and what you say and how you say it is governed by our Guidelines.

    Yes you are entitled to your opinion, everybody is, but please find ways to express your opinions in a manner which is not so insulting. Thank you.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  7. #7
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Frank has done nothing wrong......
    he has followed the DD terms.........

    Users may use any of the scripts found on Dynamic Drive on both personal and commercial web sites, free of charge. However, users may NOT redistribute, sell, or repost for download any of the scripts found on Dynamic Drive on any medium (CD-Rom,* website, etc) without the expressed written permission of Dynamic Drive. What this basically means is that while you may use our scripts on your site, you may not redistribute them (ie: put them on another script archive).

  8. #8
    morphine for a wooden leg randem's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Saz249
    Actually, this is SitePoint and what you say and how you say it is governed by our Guidelines.
    My account is still active, and so is this thread, and therefore we must all assume that my opinion - while admittedly harsh - complies with SitePoint's guidelines.

    Hey guys, I'm not just trying to start a flame war. And I don't get off on hurting people's feelings. But I DO feel very strongly about the subject.

    If you put a home movie on your web site - your kid, your vacation, etc - and Sony Pictures downloaded it, turned it into a DVD and sold it, would you not be upset?

    If Frank wants to learn JavaScript, I will be happy to help him. Have a look in any other thread I post in... I enjoy helping people.

  9. #9
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    As I said before, it wasn't your opinions that were at fault, it was the manner in which you put your opinions across. Comments such as
    And no doubt there will be some upset replies to this by grammatically challenged people who can't form sentences, but still manage to spell the necessary four-letter words people love to say.
    are un-called for and totally unnecessary.

    The reason your post remains intact is because we try to resolve problems and prevent flaming by posting within the threads themselves. Only when the insults continue do posts end up either edited or removed.

    You've said that you enjoy helping people and it's appreciated, but please try not to defend your opinions so strongly that you offend people in the process.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  10. #10
    SitePoint Zealot Mr Chocolate's Avatar
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    You could make that image viewer in flash. Go to flashkit.com and i'm sure you will find something. And if you make it in flash it will work in everyones browser.. except people who turn off the flash plugin.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mr Chocolate
    You could make that image viewer in flash. Go to flashkit.com and i'm sure you will find something. And if you make it in flash it will work in everyones browser.. except people who turn off the flash plugin.
    Or don't have it (which is admittedly few).

    I agree with Randem's position (as evidenced by a zillion posts), if not his method of delivery.

    I can't actually view your site at the mo 'cos I'm on Opera. By default I browse with JavaScript off, but even when turned on the site doesn't play. As a rule of thumb, never RELY on JS for a site to be functional. It's fine to have it in there if the site will still function (if less prettily) without it, but a big design no no to have it relied upon only 87% of users will be able to use your site among the remainder may be some big spending clients.

    For a personal site that's not an issue, you can do as you please. If you're producing something for someone else and they are unaware of the shortfalls of the design, expect angry calls and a low customer retention/repeat business ratio.

    The flash suggestion is in this instance not a bad one (after all, the site is all about visuals right?), but I'd look first at other more accessible and cross platform/browser means of delivery.
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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    Currently delving into Django, GIT & CentOS

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Have fired up IE and had a look (damn it's slow ).

    On a negative note: The image preloading causes the page to load REALLY slowly, even on a fast connection, I'd hate to look at that on a modem connection.

    On a postive note: Apart from the portfolio section, it's a lovely looking site
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
    922ee590a26bd62eb9b33cf2877a00df
    Currently delving into Django, GIT & CentOS

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by randem
    1. It really irritates me when guys like you sell someone your services as a developer, and then download scripts from places like DynamicDrive and toss them into web sites and get paid for them. By the way... have you bothered to find out whether or not you are permitted by DD's copyright to earn money from their scripts?
    Randem, I would have completely disregarded this comment, however, it was the client who had requested this script. They had seen it on a related-website, and asked us to locate it. Once we did, we advised that it wasn't going to function properly in NS. They agreed at the time, but advised that they may change their minds. After finding out that many of their customers were having trouble viewing the portfolio, they asked us if there was any way to correct the script to function in NS.

    Personally, I don't know very much JS... I've never touted myself to have the JS skills to write a similar script. I've seen many "developers" use pre-written scripts on commercial websites... I guess you're not a fan of OpenSource projects... I am.

    But anyways, I appreciate the other comments you made, apart from the "grammatical" reference , they were constructive and helpful. I will see if there is any workaround to this problem.


    Regards,
    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Mara
    Hi Frank,
    When I went to DD and looked at the script, they do specifically say:...
    So, I would stay way away from it and look for something more generic.
    I'll look around a little and see if I can find anything.
    Good Luck,
    Mara
    Mara,

    Thanks for your assistance... If you do find anything similar to the current script, please let me know... I've been having a hard time finding one myself.

    As for the disclaimer, I will take it much more seriously in the future!


    Thanks,
    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by mvd
    Frank has done nothing wrong......
    he has followed the DD terms.........


    mvd,

    Thank you... I appreciate it!



    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by TheOriginalH


    The flash suggestion is in this instance not a bad one (after all, the site is all about visuals right?), but I'd look first at other more accessible and cross platform/browser means of delivery.

    TheOriginalH,

    What other altnernatives do I have in this case? The reason they opted for the scroller is because of the multiple images they use. Otherwise, I could have had straight image links on the bottom of the page in a cell.

    Any suggestions? I will look into the flash method, but I don't know how successful it will be. Can I achieve the same roll-over effect?


    Thanks,
    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by TheOriginalH
    Have fired up IE and had a look (damn it's slow ).

    On a negative note: The image preloading causes the page to load REALLY slowly, even on a fast connection, I'd hate to look at that on a modem connection.

    On a postive note: Apart from the portfolio section, it's a lovely looking site

    I'm going to remove the pre-loading... I've received a couple of comments about it, and frankly, that's a couple too many!


    Thank you, I'm glad you liked it!


    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  18. #18
    morphine for a wooden leg randem's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FrankieShakes
    Personally, I don't know very much JS... I've never touted myself to have the JS skills to write a similar script. I've seen many "developers" use pre-written scripts on commercial websites... I guess you're not a fan of OpenSource projects... I am.
    Quite the contrary... I am a stong believer in and supporter of open source. However - without any implied derisiveness in this already sensitive thread - I would like to point out that the primary goal/interest of open source is that you are encouraged to extend and improve the project by adding to it, which admittedly you can not do.

    Furthermore, the topic of Open Source has no relevance to this discussion other than as a misrepresented attack back at my position on the above matter. And more importantly, the code available on DynamicDrive does not to my understanding represent open source, nor do DD claim it to be. In fact they specifically include text which says "do not edit below here". As such, by legal interpretation of their terms or licensing (if you can call it that) you would have to re-write it from scratch to improve it or add functionality to it.

    Regarding the request for other possible solutions to your question -- that is, to keep the current functionality while adding support for NS 4/6/7 (and I'll assume Opera) at your client's request, there are a few options.

    The core functionality of what you are attempting can be done with JavaScript and be made to support IE4+, NS4+, and Opera 6+ if you use mostly standards-compliant JavaScript/DOM, and add some browser checking for the few discrepancies between those browsers. The important thing to remember is that you should remember to make a functional (albeit less elegant) interface for the JS-impaired, or at least add a line of text indicating that the viewer must have a JS-enabled browser to view that page.

    The Flash idea is probably a better bet, but more time-consuming, and probably will not fit easily into your quoted price for the work at this point.

    Perhaps a new alternative would be to place the thumbnails into a new file, and include them onto the page by way of dynamically populated <div> (or <layer> for NS4). The viewer could use a scrollbar if necessary, or the current arrows on a browser that supports it.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Guru
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    Thumbshow is a nice script that works in most browsers. It's not a slideshow and you have to click on the thumbnail but it makes a very nice crossbrowser presentation tool:

    http://www.raingod.com/raingod/resou...are/ThumbShow/

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by randem

    The core functionality of what you are attempting can be done with JavaScript and be made to support IE4+, NS4+, and Opera 6+ if you use mostly standards-compliant JavaScript/DOM, and add some browser checking for the few discrepancies between those browsers. The important thing to remember is that you should remember to make a functional (albeit less elegant) interface for the JS-impaired, or at least add a line of text indicating that the viewer must have a JS-enabled browser to view that page.

    Perhaps a new alternative would be to place the thumbnails into a new file, and include them onto the page by way of dynamically populated <div> (or <layer> for NS4). The viewer could use a scrollbar if necessary, or the current arrows on a browser that supports it.

    Randem,

    As I said before I'm not well-versed in JS... So at this point, there are certain things I do not know. How would I go about making the script standard compliant so that it could function in any browser?

    You also said to add a browser-check... Is it as easy as saying:

    if "browser" = IE
    "display table w/ scroller"
    else
    "display alternate table"

    ?? I'm not sure if that's how it can be done.

    Any help would be appreciated!


    Thanks again,
    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by psalzer
    Thumbshow is a nice script that works in most browsers. It's not a slideshow and you have to click on the thumbnail but it makes a very nice crossbrowser presentation tool:

    http://www.raingod.com/raingod/resou...are/ThumbShow/

    I'll take a look at that one! Thanks for the link!


    ...Frank
    ...Shakes


    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!"

  22. #22
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    I hope it's useful. I'm using it on a portfolio site. You lose the scroll functionality, unfortunately. I'm sure some javascript expert could put that in, but it is a very nice script. If there get to be way too many thumbnails, separating them into separate albums might be the best way to go. For the number that you have now, making them a bit smaller by cropping rather than shrinking and maybe giving them one of those cool shapes might do the trick. I'm fortunate in that all the owners of the site where I have it wanted was not to have to reload the page for each picture and were willing to separate them into groups.

  23. #23
    SitePoint Wizard iTec's Avatar
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    one solution, tho it may not be as attractive as what you are currently using, could be to use an iframe similar to how i have set up my daughters website, The only downside to this is that it will only be viewable in IE4+, NS6, Opera 5+ Admitedly a large portion of the browser market, but it isnt everybody... just a thought tho.


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