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  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict maxy22's Avatar
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    .im domains value

    Do you think it is worthwhile registering the .im extension if it is available for common keywords ?

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    no simple no...

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    SitePoint Addict maxy22's Avatar
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    but why
    If people have taken extension like .info and .us for that then why not .im ?

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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    maxy22, domains like .im only really work when you are producing domain hacks or in that case an instant messaging website (which the acronym works too). Most people use info because it's generic (not country based like IM) and pretty self explanitory and .us of course is popular both as a domain hack and because it's used for sites within the USA, therefore even as a country based domain it has relative value.

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    SitePoint Addict maxy22's Avatar
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    IMO most people use .info as it is cheap and same goes for .us

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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxy22 View Post
    IMO most people use .info as it is cheap and same goes for .us
    Well most TLD's are cheap (depending on the registrar), you can get all of the main generic ones for under $10, so I don't exactly see your point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxy22 View Post
    Do you think it is worthwhile registering the .im extension if it is available for common keywords ?
    If you have money to waste or unless you get a really good keyword, perhaps. It is like most repurposed ccTLDs - it is trying to capitalise on a domain hack. In this case it is IM for instant messenger. Numerically, it is a very small ccTLD.

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    SitePoint Addict maxy22's Avatar
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    It is hard to define what is a 'really good keyword'
    but lets take an example if expert.im is available will you take it ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxy22 View Post
    It is hard to define what is a 'really good keyword'
    but lets take an example if expert.im is available will you take it ?
    A good keyword is one that frequently appears in search engine queries and has high value PPC clicks associated with it. The problem with .im ccTLD is that it is a small ccTLD and therefore not likely to benefit from the same kind of awareness as .com as most people, including those who type URLs in their browser's address bar expecting that there is such a website, have never heard of .im. Then there is the obvious question: expert in what?

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  10. #10
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxy22 View Post
    Do you think it is worthwhile registering the .im extension if it is available for common keywords ?
    There is not a huge number of people in the Isle of Man so using an Isle of Man specific domain is really keeping your potential audience to a real minimum - of course if that really is your intended audience then that is the TLD to use.
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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    There is not a huge number of people in the Isle of Man so using an Isle of Man specific domain is really keeping your potential audience to a real minimum - of course if that really is your intended audience then that is the TLD to use.
    Arguably Instant Messaging is the most well known use of the .IM ccTLD (along with domain hacks), just because the country doesn't have a great audiance does not mean you should not use the ccTLD. Let's face it, if what you are saying is true then the dot TV extension would not be anywhere nearly as popular as it is today.

  12. #12
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    Let's face it, if what you are saying is true then the dot TV extension would not be anywhere nearly as popular as it is today.
    Must be lots of people thinking of moving to Tuvala. I'm not so I ignore their domains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    Let's face it, if what you are saying is true then the dot TV extension would not be anywhere nearly as popular as it is today.
    When you break it down on a country by country basis, the .tv ccTLD hardly registers. The mistake a lot of people make with domains is to treat the market as a single global market instead of a set of country level markets. In terms of public recognition, .tv would have minimal recognition and it would be based purely on the fact that tv is an abbreviation of television. Country level markets tend to be ccTLD/com with net,org,biz,info being fractions of the ccTLD/com domain counts. You can see the same thing with .eu ccTLD. While it may appear to be a strong TLD with a domain count of 2.9M domains, the reality is in the country/registrant breakdown:

    http://www.eurid.eu/en/about/facts-figures/statistics

    Compare those figures with the actual ccTLD stats for those countries and a completely different picture emerges. With .uk having around 7.7M domains, .de having around 13M domains (in addition to their com/net/org/biz/info footprints), .eu is a disaster zone. This is the kind of thing that .im ccTLD is up against - public acceptance rather than domainer acceptance.

    Regards...jmcc
    Last edited by jmccormac; Aug 30, 2009 at 13:20. Reason: typo
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  14. #14
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    Must be lots of people thinking of moving to Tuvala. I'm not so I ignore their domains.
    In that case as you are probably not considering of moving to the USA you would automatically ignore every website which ends in the .us extension then (same arguement). Personally I think it's rather crazy to ignore the benefits of a domain extension just because it is primarily representative of a different nation.

    jmccormac, I agree with you in principle, while the domain extension does not have a frequent amount of registrations and mainly because it is aimed at a regional audiance with very few people involved (in comparison) I fail to see any logical reasoning to simply state a ccTLD should not be used in a global perspective when in the case of a website like .tv it does have the advantage of representing an abbreviation which is recognised worldwide. Personally I think there is some level of intelligence to the idea of using domain hacks. While country level markets are important, you should not simply be making statements of "my audiance will only encompass people from this nation, therefore I should only use this TLD", it makes better sense to give those individuals the priority (by ensuring you have the dot <country here> extension to hold the audiance) but it does not mean you should avoid taking advantage of other extensions which may aid the memory of the domain name... for instance if you registered whatson.tv it clearly has global appeal (even though the ccTLD is technically in reference to country), I just think it's rather silly to claim public awareness of TLD's based on their country of origin... after all most people have no idea what the TLD's stand for in the first place.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    jmccormac, I agree with you in principle, while the domain extension does not have a frequent amount of registrations
    Therefore its natural market is small. This is one of the key elements of the argument. If a ccTLD does not have a sufficient natural market it often ends up being repurposed as a domain hack ccTLD.

    Personally I think there is some level of intelligence to the idea of using domain hacks.
    Yes there is. The problem is that the market or audience rarely see things that way and only a very few domain hack domains actually achieve any kind of acceptance.

    While country level markets are important, you should not simply be making statements of "my audiance will only encompass people from this nation, therefore I should only use this TLD",
    This is how ccTLD markets work. They give the registrant and the audience a sense of belonging or a differentiation to the more generic TLDs like .com etc. While .com may be about global markets, ccTLDs are very much about local (country level) markets.

    it makes better sense to give those individuals the priority (by ensuring you have the dot <country here> extension to hold the audiance) but it does not mean you should avoid taking advantage of other extensions which may aid the memory of the domain name... for instance if you registered whatson.tv it clearly has global appeal
    As I said, the odd domain hack domain may work but most countries are focused on the .com/ccTLD pair of TLDs.

    (even though the ccTLD is technically in reference to country), I just think it's rather silly to claim public awareness of TLD's based on their country of origin... after all most people have no idea what the TLD's stand for in the first place.
    Actually they do. Where a country has a mature market (as opposed to an early market) there is an instinctive identification of people with their ccTLD and you can see that in the media. With the UK, almost every URL you see in advertising in print or broadcast is .co.uk - .com rarely features but the other TLDs tend to be far rarer. With Germany, everything seems to be .de and .com is even rarer. With Ireland the main TLDs are mainly .ie (Ireland), .com, and .co.uk (broadcast media). The only .tv that would have any recognition here is U.tv which is Ulster Television and it uses that as its television channel identifier URL.

    Despite Eurid claiming that there are around 50K Irish .eu domains, most of those are owned by cyberwarehousers like Dotster and direct navigation companies like Ultsearch/Oversee.net using Irish front companies. The number of genuinely Irish .eu domains is only around 8K and most of these are on Irish hosters. Very few of them are actively used and most are brand protection registrations. A similar situation applies with the UK .eu registrations and the real UK figure for .eu may be closer to 92K.

    Regards...jmcc
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  16. #16
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    In that case as you are probably not considering of moving to the USA you would automatically ignore every website which ends in the .us extension then (same arguement). Personally I think it's rather crazy to ignore the benefits of a domain extension just because it is primarily representative of a different nation.
    Personally I think it is just crazy and gimmicky to choose a domain belonging to a country that isn't your specific target audience and presents the site as being extemely amateurish and deserving of being ignored - since if the domain is a gimmick then the site probably is too since if they were serious they'd get a more appropriate domain.
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  17. #17
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    Personally I think it is just crazy and gimmicky to choose a domain belonging to a country that isn't your specific target audience and presents the site as being extemely amateurish and deserving of being ignored - since if the domain is a gimmick then the site probably is too since if they were serious they'd get a more appropriate domain.
    Well I am not narrow minded enough to deliberatly ignore any TLD, whether country specific or otherwise on the basis that it shouldn't represent me as a consumer. If I limited myself to only visiting the generic and .uk extensions I certainly would not have the richness of a browsing experience I currently have.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmccormac View Post
    Therefore its natural market is small. This is one of the key elements of the argument. If a ccTLD does not have a sufficient natural market it often ends up being repurposed as a domain hack ccTLD.
    I am not denying it has a small natural market, however when people look at the .tv extension (if you consider it on a global basis) do they see it as the country (which let's face it, most people will have not heard of) or do you think they use freeform association to think tv = television. I personally believe that while it's primary market should be it's natural occupants there is no harm whatsoever on using these fed assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmccormac View Post
    Yes there is. The problem is that the market or audience rarely see things that way and only a very few domain hack domains actually achieve any kind of acceptance.
    True but domains hacks (if you talk historically) are actually a fairly new concept, it's only over the last 5 or so years they have been floating around gaining momentium, now while I admit that only a select handlful of hacks achieve acceptance, the fact that some have managed to penetrate and defy the convention successfully gives them at least some justification to at least attempt to use them (even if in co-ordination with generic or country explicit extensions).

    Quote Originally Posted by jmccormac View Post
    This is how ccTLD markets work. They give the registrant and the audience a sense of belonging or a differentiation to the more generic TLDs like .com etc. While .com may be about global markets, ccTLDs are very much about local (country level) markets.
    Again I agree, I am not denying their purpose, I am just saying that there are cases where domain extensions have another meaning... take the .me extension, while that was intended for a ccTLD with a pretty small audiance, the word me has alternative meaning which could be taken to represent an individual. And I see no reason why it shouldn't be used in such a manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmccormac View Post
    With the UK, almost every URL you see in advertising in print or broadcast is .co.uk - .com rarely features but the other TLDs tend to be far rarer. With Germany, everything seems to be .de and .com is even rarer. With Ireland the main TLDs are mainly .ie (Ireland), .com, and .co.uk (broadcast media). The only .tv that would have any recognition here is U.tv which is Ulster Television and it uses that as its television channel identifier URL.
    Oh really? Funny that, I decided to put it to the test and watched about 5 minutes of advertising between programs, and the majority of the URL's given were not to UK domains but to global domains such as moneysupermarket.com that annoying comparethemeercat.com / comparethemarket.com, among others... also worth mentioning is that while BBC use a UK ccTLD, both ITV and Channel4 use .com (defying the ccTLD "convention").

    PS: You claim the only .tv that would have recognition in the UK was Ulster Television... you just happened to forget about Five did you? Channel 5 uses the address five.tv which again defies everything you have just said.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmccormac View Post
    Despite Eurid claiming that there are around 50K Irish .eu domains, most of those are owned by cyberwarehousers like Dotster and direct navigation companies like Ultsearch/Oversee.net using Irish front companies. The number of genuinely Irish .eu domains is only around 8K and most of these are on Irish hosters. Very few of them are actively used and most are brand protection registrations. A similar situation applies with the UK .eu registrations and the real UK figure for .eu may be closer to 92K.
    I am not in anyway saying they should be the primary focus of the domain, all I am saying is that perhaps these days with trends differing perhaps we should look at domains in respect to not only having the generic and ccTLD to appropriately hook our audiance that we could also consider the use of non-relative ccTLD's when appropriate just as another option.

  18. #18
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Since the TV channels mentioned are not global broadcasters their using .tv as a global TLD rather than the country specific one that it really is doesn't really help either. How do you know where in the universe five.tv is if it isn't in Tuvala (which is where the only identifier in the name that gives any indication of location says it should be). If they are going to be silly enough to use a domain like that then they should at least call it fiveuk.tv (assuming they are in the uk) so as to avoid confusion with all the other channel five's around the world.

    I don't remember ever visiting a domain using a country specific TLD apart from .au (where I live) and .uk (where I come from). The only exception has been when I am involved in working on a site using a different country TLD. When I am looking for anything Australia related there are sufficient .au sites covering the topic to not need to bother with any others.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    True but domains hacks (if you talk historically) are actually a fairly new concept,
    Actually it is a fairly old concept and dates from the days when .com and .net were free. I remember using two ccTLD domain hacks back in the early 1990s.

    Again I agree, I am not denying their purpose, I am just saying that there are cases where domain extensions have another meaning... take the .me extension, while that was intended for a ccTLD with a pretty small audiance, the word me has alternative meaning which could be taken to represent an individual. And I see no reason why it shouldn't be used in such a manner.
    The .me ccTLD is a good example of a successful repurposed TLD. However the anniversary of its landrush should be interesting as a lot of the highly speculative domains will be dropped. As a domain hack TLD, .me may be even better than .tv.

    Oh really? Funny that, I decided to put it to the test and watched about 5 minutes of advertising between programs, and the majority of the URL's given were not to UK domains but to global domains such as moneysupermarket.com that annoying comparethemeercat.com / comparethemarket.com, among others... also worth mentioning is that while BBC use a UK ccTLD, both ITV and Channel4 use .com (defying the ccTLD "convention").
    Five minutes is hardly a reasonable time frame for a sample. However keep looking and you will see that apart from the big brands, most of the smaller ones (the SMEs) are using .co.uk. The UK's com/net/org/etc footprint is around half that of the .uk ccTLD domain count. The usage of the ccTLD by that country's Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) are the real indication of a ccTLD's popularity (from a domain stats point of view).

    PS: You claim the only .tv that would have recognition in the UK was Ulster Television... you just happened to forget about Five did you? Channel 5 uses the address five.tv which again defies everything you have just said.
    Here being Ireland? No. Five is not generally available here apart from being carried on NTL's digital TV package and, I think, Sky's package. What makes Ireland so interesting as regards domains is that it is a market in transition from being a predominantly .com one to one where .ie is the default TLD. The second largest ccTLD in Ireland (island of) is actually .uk and there is at least 10K .co.uk domains hosted on Irish hosters. This domain overspill is actually a function of adjacent markets. A similar effect can be seen with other ccTLDs in Europe where businesses will register their domains in the adjacent market's ccTLD where possible. UTV has an ISP business that operates in the North and South of Ireland. It is not limited to broadcast as are most TV companies.

    I am not in anyway saying they should be the primary focus of the domain, all I am saying is that perhaps these days with trends differing perhaps we should look at domains in respect to not only having the generic and ccTLD to appropriately hook our audiance that we could also consider the use of non-relative ccTLD's when appropriate just as another option.
    It is an interesting idea but the problem is that you would have to effectively educate the audience. Some domain hack type domains will spread by word of mouth but it is easier to launch a site in a TLD that the end user recognises. The average user may well consider that the the ccTLD is "their" TLD and this is a very hard habit to change once it is established. Over the last fifteen years or so, the default TLD for everyone was .com but this has been changing towards the ccTLDs. The smaller, peripheral, gTLDs like .mobi, .asia and .tel are finding it tough to gain marketshare. The .biz gTLD is stuck around 2M domains. The .info gTLD is around 5M but it is highly subsidised and you can see a long period (2 years or so) pattern in its domain stats where each special offer is introduced and is followed by a mass dropping of domains as the special offer domains have to be renewed. Without the subsidisation, it would probably be near the 2M domains mark. The .net and .org TLDs are only growing at the rate of a medium sized ccTLD now. Globally, the .com TLD is growing at the same rate it did in 2003/2004. The shift from com/net/org/etc to ccTLD is happening in most countries now and it accelerates as a country's communications infrastructure advances. This is why I think that trying to market a site outside any of the main TLDs (.com/ccTLD and .net/.org) is going to be very difficult and expensive from a marketing point of view.

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    I've had a URL shortener website, which had the .IM domain in it, and sold it for x,xxx. It's about the content of your website, and how you market it. The .IM domain is usually used for SMS, or instant messaging, hence the IM.

    Cheers.

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    i have searched many domain sites, i have seen that com domains are having the greatest value

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    SitePoint Wizard SiberForum's Avatar
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    IM domain name are new domain names and they have no value now and I suppose to undterstand which value they have or will have we need to wait

  23. #23
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiberForum View Post
    IM domain name are new domain names and they have no value now and I suppose to undterstand which value they have or will have we need to wait
    IM domains went on sale in 2006... considering you are a domain registrar it suprises me that you would state something blatent inaccurate.


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