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    Free software (spilt from the firewall recommendation thread)

    (...)

    I do not trust at the free programs and respectively at the free firewalls because often 'free' means 'it does not work properly'.
    Last edited by Varelse; Jul 18, 2009 at 17:38. Reason: This discussion has been split from another thread

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    Night Elf silver trophybronze trophy Varelse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leni341 View Post
    I do not trust at the free programs and respectively at the free firewalls because often 'free' means 'it does not work properly'.
    Such a statement is way too general when it comes to applications. So many free ones are really good with many being leaders in their sector.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varelse View Post
    Such a statement is way too general when it comes to applications. So many free ones are really good with many being leaders in their sector.
    I agree that there are good free programs that really do their job. But most free programs are junk

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    Night Elf silver trophybronze trophy Varelse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leni341 View Post
    I agree that there are good free programs that really do their job. But most free programs are junk
    Agreed.
    But why not concentrate on the leaders when you are choosing applications you want to use?
    Let's see: Google Chrome (and Google Apps), Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird, Skype, VLC, Winamp, Comodo, Avira/Avast/AVG, XnView/Irfan/FastStone, FTPs, FlashGet, CCleaner, OpenOffice, VirtualDub, LAME, Exact Audio Copy, CDEx ...
    There are SO many good programs available, it's just a question of "asking around" - but in fact it's same for the commercial ones.
    That's why forums are so useful I think I learned about half of these programs from the forums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varelse View Post
    Agreed.
    But why not concentrate on the leaders when you are choosing applications you want to use?
    Let's see: Google Chrome (and Google Apps), Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird, Skype, VLC, Winamp, Comodo, Avira/Avast/AVG, XnView/Irfan/FastStone, FTPs, FlashGet, CCleaner, OpenOffice, VirtualDub, LAME, Exact Audio Copy, CDEx ...
    There are SO many good programs available, it's just a question of "asking around" - but in fact it's same for the commercial ones.
    That's why forums are so useful I think I learned about half of these programs from the forums.
    CCleaner claims that cleans everything but this is an unreal statement - I've tested this program and I'm so dissatisfied

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    What is better then CCleaner ?
    I'm going to stick with Comodo

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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leni341 View Post
    CCleaner claims that cleans everything but this is an unreal statement - I've tested this program and I'm so dissatisfied
    Not to sound like I am nagging here but CCleaner is one of the best cleaning products out there, for what it is intended (getting rid of temp data) it does an exceptionally good job. Then again exactly how can you be dissatisfied with something you have not paid for or contributed to? You have lost nothing by trying the product out and granted it won't be for everyone but the fact is it does a better job than most of the commercial products. Which is why time and again it consistantly wins awards for "best product".

    As for claiming most free software is junk and not trusting them, even though quite a few free products are hobby projects which arent up to the same level as a commercial product, if you know what you are looking for there are a mass of free products written by professional developers in their free time (because of their love of development) and those products compete on many level with the commercial products out there. There are thousands of commercial software products out there, the majority of those are poor quality as well, at least with free products you loose nothing by trying them out.

    As for the subject of firewalls and antivirus products, are you aware that the majority of free firewalls and antivirus guards / security products are written by some of the worlds leading security professionals? Many businesses that do enterprise level security products like Avira, Commodo and AVG offer free versions of their products which are less featured but will still detect and protect among the best of them. If what you said was true about free software then why is it that Commodo (when tested by security professionals) is one of the best performers, free or otherwise.

    The generalising you are portraying could be applied to any field of the computing sector (where free services exist), are you saying that these SitePoint forums (for example) don't offer a high quality level of support because we give out time freely? Sorry if it sounds like a rant but I have spent a fair amount of time as a software developer and am a huge supporter and promoter of the free and open source community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiberianHuskey View Post
    What is better then CCleaner ?
    I'm going to stick with Comodo
    CCleaner is an online privacy tool and in the same category are Webroot Washer and Mil Shield, both unbelievable software and yes, they are trial-day software.

    But they have great support, lots of features, stable functions and advanced program interface, and actually their cost is good.

    'Free' not always means bad - I agree, but almost always.

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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Your arguement is still pointless, almost all commercial software out there is bad, if you don't believe me go to a shareware site and take a look at some of the junk people charge money for. You are falsely associating free products with being bad when the problem is more sistemic to all software in general and it is wrong for you to simply sanction out free products in such a way. It is misleading to wrongfully make this association due to the problems with shareware as well therefore the only reasonable and fair answer is that while the software industry is plagued by low quality products, if you look at the majority of high quality tools and software which are in use and recommended by individuals who work in the industry, a high percentage of them are free to use (probably even more than commercial products as they have the added value of costing nothing as well as doing the same job).

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    SitePoint Wizard masm50's Avatar
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    Free does not equate to bad software at all.
    There is plenty of commercial software around that is terrible, just like there is with free software.

    On my PC at the moment my antivirus (Avast) is free, My browsers (Firefox and Chrome) are free and open source, my music manager (iTunes) is free, my media player (VLC) is free and open source, my image manager (Picasa) is free, my twitter client (Tweetdeck) is free, my text/code editor (Notepad2) is free, and my zip utility (jZip) is free. I have found of all of these to fit my needs perfectly.

    Yes I run a Windows PC and use Fireworks and Photoshop which are all commercial software, but there is plety of high quality of free software too.

    Moreover, with free software in general, much of the internet is run on free and open source software such as Apache, PHP, and Linux.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    Your arguement is still pointless, almost all commercial software out there is bad, if you don't believe me go to a shareware site and take a look at some of the junk people charge money for. You are falsely associating free products with being bad when the problem is more sistemic to all software in general and it is wrong for you to simply sanction out free products in such a way. It is misleading to wrongfully make this association due to the problems with shareware as well therefore the only reasonable and fair answer is that while the software industry is plagued by low quality products, if you look at the majority of high quality tools and software which are in use and recommended by individuals who work in the industry, a high percentage of them are free to use (probably even more than commercial products as they have the added value of costing nothing as well as doing the same job).
    I agree that there are bad commercial software, I am absolutely agree with this. But if the software company is really stable and good, then its paid software is also stable and good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masm50 View Post
    Free does not equate to bad software at all.
    There is plenty of commercial software around that is terrible, just like there is with free software.

    On my PC at the moment my antivirus (Avast) is free, My browsers (Firefox and Chrome) are free and open source, my music manager (iTunes) is free, my media player (VLC) is free and open source, my image manager (Picasa) is free, my twitter client (Tweetdeck) is free, my text/code editor (Notepad2) is free, and my zip utility (jZip) is free. I have found of all of these to fit my needs perfectly.

    Yes I run a Windows PC and use Fireworks and Photoshop which are all commercial software, but there is plety of high quality of free software too.

    Moreover, with free software in general, much of the internet is run on free and open source software such as Apache, PHP, and Linux.

    'There is plenty of commercial software around that is terrible, just like there is with free software.' - I am absolutely agree with it. I also use free software - 7Zip, Thunderbird, Firefox and so on but I've tested this all freeware a long time ago and now I am sure about its propriety.

    It is the same thing with paid software - I've tested some programs I mentioned above and now I am sure about their propriety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leni341 View Post
    I agree that there are bad commercial software, I am absolutely agree with this. But if the software company is really stable and good, then its paid software is also stable and good.
    So then why were you singling out free software? Many people who write free products come from highly successful organisations or earn a good living in other ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    So then why were you singling out free software? Many people who write free products come from highly successful organisations or earn a good living in other ways.
    Because most of free software is really junk - I've already disappointed from this 'free', yes really free from stability and propriety software, developed by not proven companies.

    But of course, there are also bad paid software, just you have to make some tests before the purchasing. Believe me, there are paid software that worth purchasing.

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    There is good and bad in both, you have to find the needle in the haystack for free software and for commercial software.

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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    And theres hundreds (possibly thousands) of free products which are of great or exceptional quality produced by highly talented individuals and groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    And theres hundreds (possibly thousands) of free products which are of great or exceptional quality produced by highly talented individuals and groups.
    Do you know that for example behind the Firefox development stand 60 million dollars from a few companies and this in practice makes Firefox paid?

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    leni341, actually you are incorrect... that makes firefox Funded, for firefox to be paid it would require the funding to come from the actual users rather than from a beneficiary source. Getting funding is something many free projects do in the forms of website advertising, donations (et al), but the main difference is that paid software requires all users to contribute money in return for the goods, firefox on the other hand can be used by individuals free of charge. You need to make the distinction because you are making a valid point but using the wrong termonology to describe it, paid software are simply not the same as funded projects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    leni341, actually you are incorrect... that makes firefox Funded, for firefox to be paid it would require the funding to come from the actual users rather than from a beneficiary source. Getting funding is something many free projects do in the forms of website advertising, donations (et al), but the main difference is that paid software requires all users to contribute money in return for the goods, firefox on the other hand can be used by individuals free of charge. You need to make the distinction because you are making a valid point but using the wrong termonology to describe it, paid software are simply not the same as funded projects.
    OK, I understand.

    But please tell me, do you use good paid software at all?

    I agree that there are paid-junk software and Firefox is a funded software but tell me frankly, did you make ever tests of some good paid software? Because this people i.e. the good developers do not want to take your money just like that. They offer really good support and they really solve all your program problems if these problems arise.

    On the other hand, all free programs (no matter how good are they) have no support.

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    SitePoint Wizard masm50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leni341 View Post
    On the other hand, all free programs (no matter how good are they) have no support.
    Again not true. Whilst paid software sometimes offer decent support, such as phone support options and the like this is not true of all paid software (and not even true of all commercial software you can readily buy in a box at your local PC World).

    Some open source software gives the software away for free but then charges for support as things like phone support staff costs them money.

    Other free software offer support forums where users can ask for help, and other users can chime in with their help, with the developer also helping from time to time. This may not be the instant on-demand support offered for some commercial software, but this definitely IS support, just community support.

    Yes some free software comes with no official support (although an email to the author can go a long way), the support offered by some commercial software can be so bad (and phone support sometimes still charged on a premium rate number) that you may as well have not asked unless the query gets escalated up the support team to someone who can do more than read the sheet in front of them.

    You just cannot make any of these generalisations about free, open source or commercial software. There will be exceptions without fail.

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    Hey could someone do me a favor, I'm trying to download Comodo firewall free version. This is already my third attempt at it and a quarter of the way though the download stops, if someone could place it some place or whatever Please and thanks !

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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leni341 View Post
    OK, I understand.

    But please tell me, do you use good paid software at all?

    On the other hand, all free programs (no matter how good are they) have no support.
    Firstly yes I do use paid software (a mixture of paid and free) Secondly you are entirely wrong so please don't make false claims, stating all free programs have no support is blatently a lie. Let me tell you a story... Nero 9 is a burning piece of software I paid for, it refused to install, the software was buggy and crashed all the time, I phoned their helpline and they refused to assist me, refused a refund (I had to go through the credit card company to get compensated) and their forums are filled with unhappy customers. That is a highly successful commercial product.

    Now lets look at free software... have you ever used apache, mySQL, openoffice, GIMP or firefox? Because I can tell you that the communities who provide support for those products are better than any commercial products support I have come across... they are community driven by experts who use the products. Stating free products have no form of support is absurd, if that were true and there was no form of support (either from the makers or the community developers) no open source products would be successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masm50 View Post
    Again not true. Whilst paid software sometimes offer decent support, such as phone support options and the like this is not true of all paid software (and not even true of all commercial software you can readily buy in a box at your local PC World).

    Some open source software gives the software away for free but then charges for support as things like phone support staff costs them money.

    Other free software offer support forums where users can ask for help, and other users can chime in with their help, with the developer also helping from time to time. This may not be the instant on-demand support offered for some commercial software, but this definitely IS support, just community support.

    Yes some free software comes with no official support (although an email to the author can go a long way), the support offered by some commercial software can be so bad (and phone support sometimes still charged on a premium rate number) that you may as well have not asked unless the query gets escalated up the support team to someone who can do more than read the sheet in front of them.

    You just cannot make any of these generalisations about free, open source or commercial software. There will be exceptions without fail.
    Some software has bad support, other like Mil Shield and Webroot Washer for example have good, even very good one.

    I do not think that I generalize. Just most of freeware and software is not on a high support/features/propriety level - this is the truth.

    What about PC games? Do you play any games? I play only the best games in the world - Far Cry 2, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Crysis, both Stalkers and here in this field most of the games also are junk.

    It all depends on users requests what kind of software -free or paid will choose. But the support/features/propriety question remains.

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    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    You don't think you generalise but you are making an assumption about every piece of free software in existance, most of which you have probably never even heard of let alone used? You are just stigmatising free software illigitately because the truth of the matter is that free software is on equal grounds with commercial products in terms of features, support, community usage (et al) if you look at the industry as a whole. And I am not saying this as a user of software but as someone who has been producing software both freely and commercially since the mid 90's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiberianHuskey View Post
    Hey could someone do me a favor, I'm trying to download Comodo firewall free version. This is already my third attempt at it and a quarter of the way though the download stops, if someone could place it some place or whatever Please and thanks !
    Go to the Comodo Firewall download site - http://www.comodo.com/home/download/...?prod=firewall


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