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  1. #26
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    Movies are snippets of life, sometimes profound, often banal, funny as well.


    As a blanket statement, why would you judge humankind as bad Maleika? I'd say that there are many bad people, but there are many more good and decent people. I never look at the whole of mankind, I judge individuals. A much healthier way of looking at the world, for we are all individuals who can not be lumped into one pile.
    Hi Ulrike

    My full answer to this question would be far too long-winded and personal to post. By and large, I'd consider myself a misanthrope, though it's borne out of skepticism rather than cynicism. I honestly doubt if there's such a thing as genuinely good or genuinely bad. I don't think in those categories.

    But you're right, of course. It'd be healthier judging individuals and I do, to some extent.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  2. #27
    Keep Moving Forward gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    Shaun(OfTheDead)'s Avatar
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    hmm... Well, I'd say there's 'Good for yourself' and 'Bad for yourself', there's no overall Good and Bad other than people's opinions. And there's the danger of course, because the story of human civilisation is one batch of people after another trying to decide for everyone else what exactly is Good and Bad. Religions are the worst examples of these.

    So for me, my idea of Good and Bad is freedom or no freedom. Either you leave people free to do what they enjoy or you don't. Anyone who does, I consider Good, anyone who doesn't I consider either misguided or Evil (depends on the individual). That way each person gets to choose for himself what is "moral", and they in turn (hopefully) leave me alone to do what I consider moral... whether that's shooting guns, living in a tree, or dressing like a tiger.


    Overall though, I'd side with Datura... the majority of people around are worth liking, even if sometimes misguided. I don't know your personal experiences, of course. But don't forget that personal experiences may have given Datura her view as well, as personal experiences have given me mine.




    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
    with sixty seconds' worth of distance run.

    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  3. #28
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    Hi Ulrike

    My full answer to this question would be far too long-winded and personal to post. By and large, I'd consider myself a misanthrope, though it's borne out of skepticism rather than cynicism. I honestly doubt if there's such a thing as genuinely good or genuinely bad. I don't think in those categories.

    But you're right, of course. It'd be healthier judging individuals and I do, to some extent.
    So according to your epistemology knowledge/certainty/reason/truth are impossible. That is skepticism in its purest form. If you see the world like that, then you can never know what good is and what bad is, because you can never accept any proof to support either. According to skepticism there is nothing that can be proven.

    Is that a fair statement?
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  4. #29
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    @Ulrike

    It certainly would be fair statement, if I were fully subscribed to the idea of skepticism.

    However, I never said I was a skeptic in absolute terms. I said my misanthropic views stem from skepticism. And the skepticism stems from empiricism. Empiricism has nothing to do with knowledge, truth, or reason. Like I said, I simply can't say why that is because I would have to write two volumes on it and it would still detail only half of it.
    Let's just say that it's out of pure luck and coincidence that I and my mother are actually alive today. If that doesn't suffice to justify being cautious when it comes to people, then so be it. I do not have any self-pity whatsoever. I merely have huge trust issues, and that in turn makes me cautious. I think I might genuinely like people even, and dislike them at the same time. Two inner - and very contradictory - forces working against each other.

    I'm a huge fan of science. I love facts. And I certainly seek truth all the time. I also know how horrible humans can be. (conjunctive)
    Judging people as either good or bad, or both, however, is based on subjective perception. There is no universal truth to be found here, except for personal truth, perhaps, and that differs from human being to human being.

    I'm merely uncertain whether or not all of us have that trait (of ugliness) somewhere burried in us to some extent, and whether many of us just haven't had the opportunity, or been in a situation that would bring that ugliness to the surface.

    hmm... Well, I'd say there's 'Good for yourself' and 'Bad for yourself', there's no overall Good and Bad other than people's opinions. And there's the danger of course, because the story of human civilisation is one batch of people after another trying to decide for everyone else what exactly is Good and Bad. Religions are the worst examples of these.
    @Shaun

    Very nicely put and I completely agree.

    I do understand your and Ulrike's views, I just happen to have a different outlook on life and people, which I take no pride in whatsoever. In the same vein, I also believe that people don't change, by and large. But, people can learn, adapt, and adjust. I am very self-critical and fully realise that my views aren't optimal. I'm constantly working on that. I just haven't found the recipe yet.

    I also agree with the notion that many people are likeable, some are very likeable indeed.

    I think I've just massively derailed this thread.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  5. #30
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    @ Maleika

    You put your finger on the difference: You are subscribing to Empiricism, I subscribe to Rationalism, in a way. For me there really is no split and I use the application of logic to experience

    I understand where you are now.

    Yes, this thread should not be derailed like this and I do apologize to the OP But when a juicy subject matter grows from the original intent the temptation always lures…

    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  6. #31
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    @ Maleika

    You put your finger on the difference: You are subscribing to Empiricism, I subscribe to Rationalism, in a way.
    No. I said my misanthropic view stems from empiricism. And that shapes part of my view on life and people. I also mentioned two forces, ratio vs. emotion and noted how contradictory that can be.
    I also said I love facts. It isn't a black or white issue. I'm neither an empiricist nor a rationalist.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  7. #32
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    @ Maleika. Then you are a mix.


    Off Topic:

    Uhh, this is getting really off the subject matter of this thread. I PM you
    Ulrike
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  8. #33
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Ha, I've missed a debate!

    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    Though, I'm not quite sure how a movie could make one feel better about mankind
    I can quite agree with that actually, but probably from a bit different angle. I think mankind as an entity is impossible to know to make any judgement whatsoever. I think that a human being has evolved way past the stage where a group of individuals can be referred to as a pack, as you would refer to a pack of animals. So when you say you feel this or that way about mankind, you only feel that way about a few individuals that you had a chance to know.

    There are only individuals whom you'd have to meet all in order to refer to all people as mankind and pass judgement on them. While you would refer to, say, wolf-kind by knowing one or two wolves, you cannot refer to all people in the world that way. A human being is such an autonomous creature that it virtually evolves into his own unique species during his lifetime, if you will.

    So, you cannot have judgement on humankind, but you can on individuals. Which is a convenient way to see things, I think. I, for example, greet strangers with a smile most of the time, unless the circumstances make me do otherwise. That's only because I don't know the individual yet and I want to get to know with them in a positive manner, but not because I have a certain opinion about the whole mankind.

    Movies, they depict cultures and individuals. There are always heroes in movies, there's no movie about a mankind as such (unless it's some kind of documentary, but that's another matter). You get to know those heroes and you then like them or don't like them, but not the mankind. Those heroes inspire you but it has only to do with the mankind that there may be more similar individuals. You can never tell which are which without knowing them all, though.

    If I tried to pass judgement on humankind, however, I would end up having a split opinion. First of all, because I would judge from a single individual or a group of them, for there's no way to know all humankind. Then when I would have made a certain judgement, and when I would meet other individuals, I would get a whole another opinion and I wouldn't know what the heck is going on. How is it that one moment I like/hate humankind, another someone makes me flip the opinion over? And it keeps flipping! Is that what they call a love-hate relationship?

    If you face contradictions, check your premises - as they say. In this case the premise is that you judge the humankind from an individual (or a group), which is erroneous.

    Now having said that, there's also, let's say a bank of general data that we have in our brain to pass a quick judgement on others. It's convenient that way, and sometimes the circumstances require you to do so. As I mentioned, I usually base every new judgement on positive grounds rather than negative. Others may be more neutral, others more on the negative side. And that's ok - that's our principles and integrity that we live by, and there's no right or wrong, there's only yours.
    Saul

  9. #34
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Ha, I've missed a debate!

    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    Movies, they depict cultures and individuals. There are always heroes in movies, there's no movie about a mankind as such (unless it's some kind of documentary, but that's another matter). You get to know those heroes and you then like them or don't like them, but not the mankind.
    The movies that appeal to a person are always a reflection of their own views on life. The values that a person has must be in this movie hero, otherwise the hero is not a hero to them

    There are many movies out there that I call bad, but they appeal to people who have different premises from mine. There is also this thing of aspects: I can love a movie for its technical aspect, the acting, for the costumes, for the music, for the content. They are independent from each other in my judgment, but when all aspects fall together and add up to a sum of positive, that is what I call a great movie

    I like your post Saul, we have not had debates in a while here

    Ulrike
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  10. #35
    www.logoraman.com electroskan.com's Avatar
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    I am surprised that no one mentioned It's a Wonderful Life

    This is my list

    1. It's a Wonderful Life.
    2. Rashomon
    3. Groundhog Day .
    4. Life is beautiful
    5. The Elephant Man. This is one movie which makes you appreciate what you have
    6. El laberinto del fauno
    7. 12 Angry Men. 1 man against 11
    8. Into the Wild
    9. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
    10.Schindler's List
    11.WALL·E
    LOGORAMAN
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  11. #36
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Yes, indeed the matching thing is very important. I tried to come up with titles to post in this thread. But rather than coming up with specific titles I can only come up with the themes and elements that appeal to me. I know I saw many movies that I found inspirational, but I can't name them. A case in point indeed.
    Saul

  12. #37
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    I think it is Elephant Man

  13. #38
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Fun snippets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FExqG6LdWHU

    I also wanted to mention another movie that I found incredibly inspirational: Papillon
    Ulrike
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  14. #39
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    Shaun(OfTheDead)'s Avatar
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    kohoutek and Datura... you guys certainly used some words there!




    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
    with sixty seconds' worth of distance run.

    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  15. #40
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    Shaun(OfTheDead)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura
    HA!... That first one was Night of the Living Dead ! Love that movie!

    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
    with sixty seconds' worth of distance run.

    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  16. #41
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    kohoutek and Datura... you guys certainly used some words there!




    Hmm? Words? How can you talk to each other without using words? hahahahaha
    Ulrike
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  17. #42
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    As we say in Trinidad, "Is like you boil a dictionary and drink the water."

    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
    with sixty seconds' worth of distance run.

    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  18. #43
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    As we say in Trinidad, "Is like you boil a dictionary and drink the water."

    That would make a fine movie

    Boiled Dictionary

    I can see it now…
    Ulrike
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  19. #44
    SitePoint Member coffeemaniac's Avatar
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    i love Big Fish too! the story is simply amazing. i could watch it over and over again.

  20. #45
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    How about Donnie Darko... best insight into the life of us crazy people since A Clockwork Orange.

  21. #46
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    "The Click" although some may think its funny movie because of Adam Sandler, but really the message is simple. Live life to the fullest, Love your family, Love your work and Love Life.

  22. #47
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    It's just called "Click", no "the" before it, but a great movie and one of adam sandlers best


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