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  1. #1
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    200 for job - what would you do?

    I've been asked to developa site for a reptile shop. Problem is, the guy can only manage 200, that's his budget.

    I'm wondering what to do. I'm thinking set-up Drupal, modify a free theme and do him a logo. Set up some modules and get everything working.

    He don't want a shopping cart, just to be able to list his reptiles online.

    What you think?

  2. #2
    Night Elf silver trophybronze trophy Varelse's Avatar
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    Maybe he can offer you a few reptiles as a bonus?
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  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy bluedreamer's Avatar
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    I'd politely refuse

  4. #4
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    You could just set him up with a customised wordpress site, they are really easy for users to manage and it really takes no effort at all to get the installation up, perhaps make a couple of quick configuration changes to get him started

  5. #5
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Like Bluedreamer, I'd kindly refuse.
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  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Nadia P's Avatar
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    If you've set up wordpress before, you should know how long that takes you to do. If you believe the amount covers the setup time to get him started, then go for it. If it doesn't, then you need to decide whether it's worth your time or not - only you know that :-)

    You have to realise that if he's new at this, you'll be the one that he'll be coming to for advice.. that's when all the problems can start!

  7. #7
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    I would also refuse the job. Its usually the clients with the tiny budgets that end up consuming the most amount of your time and are the biggest pain.

  8. #8
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    200 £ IS great you can hire a freelancer that will do the whole job for you.and can make great result for you.

  9. #9
    doing my best to help c2uk's Avatar
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    Drupal, no way, there's too much work to be done for just £200. I'd use Wordpress for that plus a free template and that's it. Be very specific about what you'd do and what you won't do, e.g. free support, training, putting up his reptiles, ...

    A couple of other things, what's the value to him of having his own site? Does he really need one, will it provide him with additional customers? If you can set it up so that he sees the added value, maybe he'll come back later with an online shop.

  10. #10
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    personally, i would speculate to accumulate.. folks with loads of cash to spend on a website are not round every corner.

    show him a basic website you would do for £200, then see if you can interest him in some 'add on features'

  11. #11
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    I'll do it for 100. I need the cash to buy tools for my bonsai

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia P View Post
    If you believe the amount covers the setup time to get him started, then go for it. If it doesn't, then you need to decide whether it's worth your time or not - only you know that :-)

    You have to realise that if he's new at this, you'll be the one that he'll be coming to for advice.. that's when all the problems can start!
    OK, cascadingstylez, i have a question.. why does your time have a value? is this a full time business? do you have employees paid by the hour? I suspect not if your seeking advice about taking the job on a forum.

    If not take the 200 and do a website, It doesn't matter if it takes 1hr or 10hrs, it's still 200 you didnt have at the start! and if your smart you can as i said before try and interest him in more either at the start or later on.

    All the folk saying "no way" are a good example of why countries like china are dominating the world, basically the west has got greedy.

  13. #13
    doing my best to help c2uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb299 View Post
    OK, cascadingstylez, i have a question.. why does your time have a value? is this a full time business? do you have employees paid by the hour? I suspect not if your seeking advice about taking the job on a forum.

    If not take the 200 and do a website, It doesn't matter if it takes 1hr or 10hrs, it's still 200 you didnt have at the start! and if your smart you can as i said before try and interest him in more either at the start or later on.

    All the folk saying "no way" are a good example of why countries like china are dominating the world, basically the west has got greedy.
    I guess you haven't heard of the concept opportunity costs yet?

    And China isn't dominating the world because the West got too greedy. Further guess, you don't know much about economics?
    Dan G
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  14. #14
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    I last heard that reptiles were dominating China. The website you build for £200 could get you exposure leading to your next project. That exposure is worth much more than the £200 we all would spend on beer, or tools. Also, throw in some extra features like someone said before.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by c2uk View Post
    I guess you haven't heard of the concept opportunity costs yet?
    hmmmm let me get this straight...

    get offered £200 to put together a website..

    choice 1, do nothing because the guy cant afford more and gain nothing...

    Choice 2, do a website and be £200 better off.....

    and i don't know anything about ecconomics???

    I think an 8 year old could easily answer that one

    Quote Originally Posted by c2uk View Post
    And China isn't dominating the world because the West got too greedy. Further guess, you don't know much about economics?
    hmmm lets take a minute to consider why, the west is plagued by things like western company call centres in India, western brands of clothing, cars, electronics mass produced in places like korea, china, vietnam, tailand and mass imported to be mass purchased in the west. Hell.. my HP printer is manufactured in maylasia!

    Lets face it, if a far eastern work force, can make a product previously made literally just round the corner, export it half way round the planet, the company pay import duties and still sell it day in and day out at a price that can undercut a western made alternative I think thats a pretty good indication that the west as an entity has gotten a little bit too greedy.

  16. #16
    doing my best to help c2uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb299 View Post
    hmmmm let me get this straight...
    ... load of rubbish ...
    let me guess once more, you're still at school, probably not even doing your A levels yet, and living at your parents house?
    Dan G
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by c2uk View Post
    let me guess once more, you're still at school, probably not even doing your A levels yet, and living at your parents house?
    If thats what your happy believing go ahead and believe it. Just do the world a favour and don't start guessing at anything that may be important.

    PS.. if your going to quote, dont add your own comments into the quote!

  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb299 View Post
    OK, cascadingstylez, i have a question.. why does your time have a value? is this a full time business? do you have employees paid by the hour? I suspect not if your seeking advice about taking the job on a forum.

    If not take the 200 and do a website, It doesn't matter if it takes 1hr or 10hrs, it's still 200 you didnt have at the start! and if your smart you can as i said before try and interest him in more either at the start or later on.

    All the folk saying "no way" are a good example of why countries like china are dominating the world, basically the west has got greedy.
    Actually I say "no way", because if I took every 200$ job for 10 hours of work, I'd only be able to earn a maximum of 800$/week which doesn't cover my expenses.

    Any 8th grader can tell you that's not a winning equation.

    Every professional (ie: someone that does something for a living) needs to know their hourly costs. Taking every project to fill spare time drives your hourly rate down. Taking solid projects where you can help clients succeed drives your rate up. In the middle, to fill the time? Stuff to build your brand, stuff to raise your profile, helping others out, pro bono work, etc.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  19. #19
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    Jeremy, i accept what your saying about professional costs for professional websites. But lets cut through the B***SH*T here. The opening post was basically "do i cobble together a basic webpage so a local pet shop owner can put pictures of his reptiles on it for 200?"

    The basic brief isn't exactly for a website that would look at home on the starship enterprise is it?

    Being perfectly honest, and this is whats really irritated me about this whole debate, anyone who's charging for websites/design should be at least good enough to be able to put a basic web page together with a handfull of pictures and contact details in well under 10 hrs. Even taking 10hrs thats 20p/h.

    Given that many hosts include free basic templates for different types of site these days with one click installation, or wordpress as someone mentioned earlier, can be installed with a ready made template and a handfull of plugins in well under an hour! thats 200p/h for what many school kids can do with their eyes closed when they get bored!

    and given the choice of taking 200 for even a couple of hours work, or getting nothing because it's a small shop with a small budgetwanting a basic webpage, only a complete muppet would walk away, especially when the kid next door could probably do the job and be pleased with half the offered price, and gain a lot of bad PR from the shopkeeper when he realises how little is involved in a basic webpage in comparison to what some professionals would like to charge him for the task.

    *rant over*

  20. #20
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    tonyb299, not arguing with you, but the original poster asked specifically what we would do. Sure, many can quickly whip up a site, but that wasn't the question, and people simply answered what they would do. You might not like all of the answers, but it's what the original poster asked.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb299 View Post
    Jeremy, i accept what your saying about professional costs for professional websites. But lets cut through the B***SH*T here. The opening post was basically "do i cobble together a basic webpage so a local pet shop owner can put pictures of his reptiles on it for 200?"

    The basic brief isn't exactly for a website that would look at home on the starship enterprise is it?

    Being perfectly honest, and this is whats really irritated me about this whole debate, anyone who's charging for websites/design should be at least good enough to be able to put a basic web page together with a handfull of pictures and contact details in well under 10 hrs. Even taking 10hrs thats 20p/h.

    Given that many hosts include free basic templates for different types of site these days with one click installation, or wordpress as someone mentioned earlier, can be installed with a ready made template and a handfull of plugins in well under an hour! thats 200p/h for what many school kids can do with their eyes closed when they get bored!

    and given the choice of taking 200 for even a couple of hours work, or getting nothing because it's a small shop with a small budgetwanting a basic webpage, only a complete muppet would walk away, especially when the kid next door could probably do the job and be pleased with half the offered price, and gain a lot of bad PR from the shopkeeper when he realises how little is involved in a basic webpage in comparison to what some professionals would like to charge him for the task.

    *rant over*
    You're being pedantic for no good reason. And swearing weakens your case. Under your logic, everyone should be happy with anything they're offered for anything, cause a) someone else could do it cheaper and the client wouldn't be happy and b) some money is better than none.

    Problem being that in scenario a), the client actually comes back a few months later and says "you were right, I should have gone with you for a bit more money, let's get this done... and scenario b) is simply untenable.

    Sorry mate, but you're arguing for nothing. If YOU want to take every job at every price every client asks, that's YOUR business. But in a forum filled with professionals, when asked what professionals will do, professionals will answer professionally.

    Which tends to mean not swearing or dismissing every single person's opinion just cause you have some kind of weird axe to grind.

    Sorry, but, no, 20$/hour, or 40$/hour ISN'T worth my time. It's FAR more valuable for me to be on twitter, networking, taking lunches, chatting to past clients and other things that don't pay me directly but get me closer to my rate (which is 5-20x that depending on the client) than it is to just take whatever job comes across the table.

    I'm not going to drop my rate because a client doesn't have enough money to pay me. If they don't have enough money, I will happily give them some advice, point them in the right direction and do a lunch after the fact to give them some followup tips (free). I'm not a jackoff, I'm just running a business. One where I need to pay my living expenses, debt, child support and, yeah, it'd be nice to have enough money left to put gas in the motorcycle on occasion.

    If that's not YOU, that's fine. I'm not judging YOU for your choices. But don't pretend like you're somehow better than me cause you'll apparently take every gig at any price.

    Knowing what your time is worth is a key part of being a professional. Every hour of our day is an investment. And if you aren't tracking that invested time, you will fail. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but eventually you'll fall flat on your face and wonder what went wrong.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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    Twitter: @jeremywright

  22. #22
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    I think it depends on your situation.

    Are you a student who's living at home?

    If you aren't relying on this project to pay the bills and you want the opportunity to learn then by all means do it. It'll be a good portfolio piece and you'll have a little extra cash in your pocket.

    Are you a professional living on your own?

    Then I would outright refuse this because the money just isn't enough to cover the costs. To do this site right (even using wordpress) would take 15 to 20 hours at least (designing the website, slicing it up, integrating it into wordpress, finding the right plugins, optimizing it for the web etc.)
    Check out my web design blog.
    http://www.bolducpress.com

  23. #23
    om nom nom nom Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Hm, I just watched my colleague set up a Drupal site (after he's been studying them and playing with them, Drupal is not for those who've never touched it before) in a few hours. Fully working (limited number of pages), some free theme, done.

    It's not what I would have built (because I'm a hand coder), but it looks nice, and does the job. That sounds like what this reptile guy wants.

    If you (the OP) have this ability to whip out a functional, basic Drupal-based site in just a few hours (and I do mean less than 10, more like 4) then that 200 pounds might well be worth it. If I could whip out a site that pleases the client, does the job, and follows all the normal accessible/valid/cross-browser blah blah stuff in such a short period of time, I would take the job, purely for the money and not to add to my portfolio, because then it's much higher that 20 pounds an hour.

    Too bad I can't. I take much longer on sites, and so I would refuse, and try to help him find someone who is willing to do it for him.

  24. #24
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    People what are talking about, in my counry anyone will work more then a month for that 200 pounds. so take it and make him a good site

  25. #25
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    Maybe so. £200 is approx 3000 grivnas, but we're talking about two very different countries here.

    Here, £400/week is a normal income. £50 a week wouldn't pay bills, mortgage payments, food, clothes, insurance, transport - in the UK.

    I'm not sure how it is in the Ukraine, it may be the same.
    Jake Arkinstall
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    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona


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