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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard
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    music plugin playing from page to page continously?

    how can i have a plugin play (a plugin that produces music) throughout a whole site, continuously?

    so instead of having a the plugin assigned to individual pages, assign it to a whole site?

    thanks

  2. #2
    SitePoint Zealot Drew630's Avatar
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    Yes, but I don't know why you would want to....

    Just use this tag at the beginning of your pages. Probably easiest to throw it in a header file.

    Code:
    <embed src="filename" loop="true">
    Drew
    ~Drew

    There Is No Greater Joy Than Soaring High On The Wings Of Your Dreams, Except Maybe The Joy Of Watching A Dreamer Who Has Nowhere To Land But In The Ocean Of Reality.

  3. #3
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    If you want it to keep going continuously without breaks or restarting from the beginning when a new page is loaded the only way to do it is to use frames, and have the plugin embedded in the frame that stays constant throughout the site. Frames are bad though.

    That said, music that plays on a web page is even worse :P Make sure you have an option to turn it off and preferably ask the user before you turn it on. I browse with up to 20 web sites open at once and if one of them is playing music it can be really annoying, especially if I don't know which site out of the ones I have open is doing it.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard
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    thanks-a-lot for the reply drew, but i don't think that'll work :/

    the particular plug in is called koan and it's a genertive music plug-in so looping is inapplicable to this plugin, but the question isn't specific to koan, which is quite an unknown plugin

    it would be the same if it was flash.

    so consider this - say i had a flash movie that had no visual presense - only made sound - one single quite long track. and i wanted to start that one long track on any page that a person happend to start on. then without any break, continue that track as the shift to other pages on the same site.

    obviously with the standard way of incorporating a plugin into a page it stops as soon as the user goes to another page - continuation is what i'm after

    anyone know any way of achieving this? if there's more than one, which is the best?

    any suggestions much appreciated. thanks.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard
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    hiyer skunk
    yeah i thought of frames. i was hoping there'd be a simpler way but i guess not. i just wasn't keen on the idea of frames. why do you say frames are bad? i'm not keen on them but for no particular reason - what is the reason they're not good?

  6. #6
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Although you could use frames, that will unnecessarily complicate your site design (and will affect search engine crawling), not to mention altering your current URLs. I suggest using a popup window (as much as I hate them) which contained the music playing code, and suitable text/graphics to indicate to the user that the window is there for music only, and can be closed to stop the music - naturally the music will continue to play for as long as the popup window stays open.

    However, I too hate music on web sites (MIDI is too plinky-plonky on most soundcards, and anything else wastes precious bandwidth), and so I suggest that you think carefully before forcing unwanted music on users.


    M@rco

  7. #7
    Currently Occupied; Till Sunda Andrew-J2000's Avatar
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    erm you could update your page using remote scriptng, but that might be overly complicated to do ie

    PHP Code:
    <html>
    <
    head>
    <
    script type="text/javascript">
        function 
    test(){
          
    jsrsExecute("test.php"myCallback"test", Array("Test","String"));
        }
        function 
    myCallbackreturnstring ){
         
    document.all.replace.innerHTML returnstring;
        } 
    </script>
    </head>
    <body>...
    <div><embed src="filename" loop="true"></div>
    <div id="replace"></div>
    </body>... 
    try something along them lines

  8. #8
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    Frames are bad for a whole load of reasons, but here are my favourite two:
    1. Theoretical reason: They break the fundamental model of the web - that of hyperlinked pages. With frames you suddenyl have more than one page displayed at once and clicking a link on one page may result in unpredictable changes in other pages.
    2. Practical reason: They make it hard/impossible to access the URL of the content you are looking at. This makes it hard to bookmark things, but more importantly it makes it hard to link to content and to pass the URL of something you are looking at to other people via email / ICQ / whatever. What's the point of content on the web if you can't share its location?

  9. #9
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Well put, Skunk! My sentiments entirely!


    M@rco

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Skunk
    Frames are bad though.
    SHUUUUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP.

    Skunk you silly boy...stop telling people that frames are bad. You might as well tell them that TABLES or BOLD tags are bad. Frames are a perfectly valid form of HTML and are unique in their attributes and properties. With proper usage, they are the perfect solution to many website related problems.

    You might tell people that you don't RECOMMEND frames but telling them that "frames are bad" is misleading.
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  11. #11
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by creole
    You might as well tell them that TABLES or BOLD tags are bad.
    But strictly speaking they're bad too (well, tables are OK for presenting tabular data...)

    My "frames are bad" quote was more of a tongue in cheek aside than anything else, but I'll explain it anyway. I usually qualify my claim that frames are bad, but these days it doesn't seem worth bothering as the message seems to be pretty well spread already. Aside from google groups I can't think of any commercial websites I visit frequently that use frames, so I've kind of slacked off in providing justification for the "frames are bad" claim. I'll remember to next time though

  12. #12
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Skunk isn't making a sweeping, unfounded statement like Mr Mackey ("Drugs are bad, mmmkay?") of South Park fame....

    Skunk makes two very good points, and is merely stating his opinion, although he might better have started off with something like:

    IMHO frames are to be avoided because.....
    But it's the same thing really! Nyah!


    M@rco

    EDIT: I really should get in the habit of reading my submitted posts before I close the window and start doing something else......!
    Last edited by M@rco; Jun 4, 2002 at 09:04.

  13. #13
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    M@rco>not sure about the popup window. it would definetely get round all the other problems that have been mentioned but it would be so much better without external window. maybe that is the way though? i don't know. although it's not neat to do that it would get round every other problem

    i don't mind the extra complicated work if that's what's required to get frames to work but there's obviously further disadvantages than extra hastle from the perspective of the authorer

    Andrew-J2000>that serverside script - i just don't think it'll work with the particular plugin i'm using. it's a generative music plugin which means that it makes music up as it goes along, and i don't think that that will enable it to carry on. i think it'll end up with it starting afresh everytime someone shifts pages - but i don't know that for sure, but i can't see the plugin carrying over all it's own current settings and parameters via that method.

    skunk> the way i was thinking of using the frames is the frame that had the music in would be visually non-existant and i'd make every effort to make it like a normal page - visualy it would be, but not the url - so i guess that's the main problem

    >Aside from google groups I can't think of any commercial websites I visit frequently that use frames

    is it at all possible skunk that you've visited sites that use frames without it being obviously apparent that they're using frames? - that's what i would hope to do - hide the fact that i'm using frames but at the end of the day i can't see a way roudn the url problem.


    the music plugin that i want spread continuously over the site is a plugin called koan - it generates music from it's own built in sythesizer so it's got the same amazing economy that midi has, even better economy - a good sounding track can be as small as 1k! but it sounds better than midi. that's why i don't think the server side thing'll work.

  14. #14
    Currently Occupied; Till Sunda Andrew-J2000's Avatar
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    you didn't understand what i put by the looks of it.

    http://andrew-j.port5.com/requests/requesting.html

    if you click the option box it will insert into a div the content returned from another page or a serverside script.

    this means you can retreive data without refreshing the page, or retreive through php or mySQL database contents.

    thats what i intended with that script there, but kinda got bored and moved onto something else.

  15. #15
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    In essence, the only way to get the music to continue without breaks or restarting between pages is to put the music playing code in an area of code which persits (=is not reloaded) between pages - i.e. a frame or a popup window.

    Skunk has already made the two fundamental problems with frames (and IFRAMEs) abundantly clear so I won't repeat them - by a simple process of elimination, your only remaining solution is a popup window!


    M@rco

  16. #16
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Sorry AJ! Forgot about your point on remote scripting!

    While I usually jump to recommend the use of JSRS, in this case it doesn't really have much of an advantage over frames (the same problems apply), although it may be marginally better in terms of coding.


    M@rco

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    So you're saying that a POPUP WINDOW (who's sole purpose is to contain a sound file) is preferable to frames?

    What sort of crack are you smoking?

    Using a frameset, you could have had this problem solved already and be at the pub watching the football game. Besides the fact that you're not considering what USERS want. Ask any common web user which he dislikes more and popups will be at the top of the list. Furthermore, ask them what frames are and likely you'll get a blank stare. Because frames being what they are, they are for the most part transparent, meaning that users don't know WHAT they are and even that they are there to begin with.

    My suggestion is to use frames. They are simple, easy to implement and any problems that these two yahoos )) come up can easily be overcome with a little elbow grease.
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  18. #18
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Creole, methinks thou doth misunderstand me!

    I hate popups, I hate music on web sites.

    However, if that's what Johnyboy want to force upon his visitors, it's his decision! IMHO I think popups solve his particular problem better than migrating to a frameset would.

    So there! Stick that in your pot pipe and smoke it!


    M@rco

  19. #19
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    Frames would be a fine solution for this if only the URL problem could be avoided. Unfortunately the way to avoid the URL problem is to give each page its own seperate frameset and link to them with target="_top", and if that method is used then the whole frameset (including the supposedly persistent invisible music containing frame) will have to be reloaded as well, starting the music from the beginning.

    I don't know that I prefer a popup (I dislike those even more than I dislike frames) but at least if there was a popup the user could close it to kill the music

    Unfortunately it seems frames are the only plausible solution to this particular problem, but personally I would not be willing to make the trade off (gaining the problems inherent with frames in order to solve the music problem). I can't stand music on web pages so I would never run in to this problem, but I think personally I would probably go for a pop up window with a "click here to launch a funky musical pop up window" button somewhere (hence allowing the user to opt-in to having the music).

    I think we've given johnyboy all the advice and options he needs now It's up to him what he decides to do.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard
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    andrew> you're right, i don't understand what you're talking about at all. even after looking at that link. infact particularly after looking at that link!
    i do understand the basic logic and idea behind php and mysql and i can't see anyway that it could be usefull with this - it's server side and this music plugin is a self contained music synth which is client side. i could (very easily) be wrong but could you explain the basic logic behind how your idea would work please?
    here some tech info including api info about the particular plugin in case you're interested - http://www.sseyo.com/products/plugin...index_new.html

    creole> the url problem is a bugger though. other than that i'd definetely go with frames. i've had a quick go just to see how it would work and it looks fine as the music frame is completely hidden - frameset rows="100%,*" like so. and that works fine in explorer - hidden frame so it looks like one normal page and music in the hidden frame but it doesn't work in netscape for some reason at the moment
    i don't mind a bit of extra work - but the url prob - it's not good. and it's not working in netscape at the minute

    marco> the site revolves around music and this particular music plugin so if you're not into music at all, you wouldn't be there in the first place, so it's not like i'm pushing it
    no excuse for pushing popups though

  21. #21
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Fair enough (popups + music = aaargh)!

    I now better understand the requirements for your site (you hadn't given us much to go on), so it looks like frames are now your only solution! Good luck with the project.


    M@rco

  22. #22
    Currently Occupied; Till Sunda Andrew-J2000's Avatar
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    i did write a massive long thread, explain how to do remote scriping and my principle idea behind it. But my browser crashed and i dont have the time to rewrite it. Heres the best solution.

    Code:
    <iframe id="framed" src="http://www.google.com" width="100%" height="100%" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>
    
    
    plugin goes here etc
    you can put this in a table or whatever and have menus where ever you want but this is the best way i can thing of.

  23. #23
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    I don't think an iframe would work though, as whenever the "parent" page was reloaded the iframe would be reloaded as well, causing the music to start again from the beginning.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard
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    okeydokey. thanks all

  25. #25
    You want what? By when?? Milamber's Avatar
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    Alternate solution??

    I am actually having this same issue.

    Here's my deal though:


    the client want's to have music on every page, but we don't want it to reload everytime a new page loads.

    Right now, the site does not use frames. And we *will not* use frames because, for the most part, it ruins search engine crawling.

    Anyway, what I was thinking might work is this.

    When you call javascript to open a window, you can give that window a title, ie "javawindow".

    Why not run some kind of foreach/if...then statement that does something like:

    Code:
    foreach( window in application as cwin) {
      if ( cwin.name == 'javawindow' ) {
        openwin = false;
      } else {
        openwin = true;
      }
    }
    
    if(openwin) {
      window.open(blah blah blah);
    }

    However, i'm no crack javascript head, so i have no idea how to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated muchly
    -Jeff Minard | jrm.cc - Battlefield 2 Stats


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