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  1. #26
    Is Still Alive silver trophybronze trophy RetroNetro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Is there a Firefox extension that let's you use Firefox as a web server? If so, I've never heard of it.
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3002

  2. #27
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by conradical View Post
    All those improvements and Tommy yet browses with images turned off?
    Nah, I turned images on over a year ago when I finally got wireless 'broadband' (only 0.5–1 Mbit/s, but better than dial-up).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sega View Post
    The only problem is that Opera will always have to be running on your machine, and accidentally closing it can cause huge problems, particularly if you are using it to host something like a website. Large servers have a job, and their main job is always to be on.
    I don't believe Opera are expecting Unite to be used for anything business critical. But for laid-back social networking and things like that, it could be quite useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sega View Post
    Currently my ISP is very bad as it disconnects. Can you see where I am getting at.
    Yes. My connection is nowhere near enough for something like this either. Even the power supply around here is to erratic for me to consider leaving my computer on.

    Opera Unite will not be useful for everybody, but as they say in their introduction, more and more people do have access to high-speed, high-availablility connections and can benefit from something like this.

    As wwb_99 said, there are possible security issues as well. But people use Google Docs and Chrome, despite knowing that everything they type or read is likely to be spied upon.

    Kohoutek raised another important issue: copyright. The terms of use for Unite say that Opera will review and approve every service that is uploaded. They will reject code that obviously doesn't work; and also services that serve adult or hateful content. I would assume that they won't approve anything that directly violates copyright legislation either.

    Then you have grey zones like file sharing apps. Would Opera be liable if someone shared copyrighted material illegaly? Or is that the file sharer's responsibility?
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  3. #28
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    The terms of use for Unite say that Opera will review and approve every service that is uploaded. They will reject code that obviously doesn't work; and also services that serve adult or hateful content.
    How do they propose to do this? Every single server created in Opera Unite will then have to be monitored, similar to Google Docs and Chrome. So the middle-man would be coming back, as would be a source of authority, like the server.

  4. #29
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    I was just about to post that link, too.

  5. #30
    whagwan? silver trophybronze trophy akritic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sega View Post
    How do they propose to do this? Every single server created in Opera Unite will then have to be monitored, similar to Google Docs and Chrome. So the middle-man would be coming back, as would be a source of authority, like the server.
    It doesn't quite work that way, as by 'service' they actually mean the built-version which devs will upload to the Opera Unite site. For example if you create a twitter app (possible, since you can have an opera twitter widget) that would work in Unite, you'd submit it to Opera for other people to download. That's where Opera's 'moderation' will come into effect, but not what users actually add to services.

  6. #31
    whagwan? silver trophybronze trophy akritic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Kohoutek raised another important issue: copyright. The terms of use for Unite say that Opera will review and approve every service that is uploaded. They will reject code that obviously doesn't work; and also services that serve adult or hateful content. I would assume that they won't approve anything that directly violates copyright legislation either.

    Then you have grey zones like file sharing apps. Would Opera be liable if someone shared copyrighted material illegaly? Or is that the file sharer's responsibility?
    Yes that is quite the interesting thing about this. Essentially it must be somewhere in the TOS that users are responsible for the content they add to services. What about liability for streaming music? Surely royalties need to be paid anytime something is broadcast? Or are we assuming some 'fair usage' policy whereby we all know people share CD's and take them to parties etc? I'm sure Opera must have covered their backsides with the legal side to this.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Addict dAEk's Avatar
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    Cool? Certainly.

    Useful? To some.

    Web-revolutionary? Hardly.
    I do see some opportunities but they aren't ground breaking. What am I missing?
    David Shamloo-Ekblad

    Go Habs! | For music addicts: Last.fm, SongMeanings

  8. #33
    whagwan? silver trophybronze trophy akritic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dAEk View Post
    Cool? Certainly.

    Useful? To some.

    Web-revolutionary? Hardly.

    That about sums it up really. But, whatever the possibilities, those can only be realised by other services when released.

  9. #34
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kailash Badu View Post
    On the top of this my ISP makes it explicitly clear in the TOS that I cannot host a server of any flavor on the internet connection I have subscribed to. Sure I can get away with it very easily but it is still a violation.
    With Opera Unite you'd be running a web browser and not a web server so it wouldn't be covered by their current TOS unless they change the TOS to specifically state which web browsers you can choose from.
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  10. #35
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    With Opera Unite you'd be running a web browser and not a web server so it wouldn't be covered by their current TOS unless they change the TOS to specifically state which web browsers you can choose from.
    It is not so much running a web server, it is running a public service that violates the TOS. There is no distinction between running a Web Server or a Web Browser with a built in server. The ISP inspects the traffic going though which is what determines if you have a public service running on your network (I.e. replying to remote HTTP request.)
    Logic without the fatal effects.
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  11. #36
    Is Still Alive silver trophybronze trophy RetroNetro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armchaircritic View Post
    Yes that is quite the interesting thing about this. Essentially it must be somewhere in the TOS that users are responsible for the content they add to services. What about liability for streaming music? Surely royalties need to be paid anytime something is broadcast? Or are we assuming some 'fair usage' policy whereby we all know people share CD's and take them to parties etc? I'm sure Opera must have covered their backsides with the legal side to this.
    I noticed on this page: http://unite.opera.com/service/162/

    It says:
    Note: Please respect artists. Only share content if you have the right to do so.

  12. #37
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    It is not so much running a web server, it is running a public service that violates the TOS. There is no distinction between running a Web Server or a Web Browser with a built in server. The ISP inspects the traffic going though which is what determines if you have a public service running on your network (I.e. replying to remote HTTP request.)
    This is in-place for companies/businesses who are gaining an income from their server. The most the ISP can do is cancel your subscription, and then you will probably have the choice to go with another company. Let's face it, nobody wants to go to court, waisting their time and money to screw you us little people (with little money) over.

  13. #38
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    It is not so much running a web server, it is running a public service that violates the TOS. There is no distinction between running a Web Server or a Web Browser with a built in server. The ISP inspects the traffic going though which is what determines if you have a public service running on your network (I.e. replying to remote HTTP request.)
    On second thoughts, have you thought of changing your ISP. Seriously, when companies start putting things like that in their contract you might have to consider leaving them.

    I have just d/loaded opera unite, and I must say, it's very impressive. To the point were I have set Opera as my default browser. Not only this but I have thought of a many ways to make such an service useful, and guess what did not cross my mind, illegal downloading. I could integrate these tools with my clients, for easy communication, without much fuss. I can store their files, without the need to have an FTP program, and just give them a URL and a password. This tool is brilliant.

  14. #39
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Probably the only decent explanation I found on it and lots of good opinion: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/06/1...n-opera-unite/

  15. #40
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    ISP are not screwing you over, Sega, by limiting the feature set. There are multiple tiers and packages ISPs offer, each with a different price point. It would make for a bad business plan if one were to give the cheapest plan the same features as the most expensive plan.

    Using a consumer level connection doesn't need to be able to host any public services. That is why if you need to or want to host public services you should upgrade to a business account which does offer that.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  16. #41
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    That is why if you need to or want to host public services you should upgrade to a business account which does offer that.
    The whole point of Opera Unite is that it is for sharing personal info - it is not appropriate for business use and therefore having a business account with an ISP is a good indicator that you shouldn't be using Opera Unite.
    Stephen J Chapman

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  17. #42
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Consider the fact that those TOS were written well before Opera Unite (or even Google Wave for that matter) came out. They'll likely have to adapt their TOS to cope with the next generation of Web services that these two companies (and others like them) are producing and will release in the near future.

  18. #43
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    This is combination of peer to peer file sharing, FTP client, Google Picasa and Yahoo widget, in my imagine.

    Finally, its similarly with Yahoo Zimbra Dekstop.

  19. #44
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia View Post
    Probably the only decent explanation I found on it and lots of good opinion: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/06/1...n-opera-unite/
    Another Firefox fanboy resorting to immature and vulgar language to get his biased point across. Yawn.

    He whinges about Opera not being open source – that holy grail whose purpose must not be questioned – but doesn't address the fact that Unite services will be as open as it gets. They consist of HTML, CSS, JavaScript, SVG and other web standards, and come as a zip archive which anyone can examine.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  20. #45
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Off Topic:

    I tire of hearing about how Opera isn't open source. First, it would not surprise me if some day Opera just did that anyway (for whatever reason). Second, FF being open source has in no way helped fix some of the basic, nasty, decades-old bugs that reside happily in its code, many since 2000. Wasn't that supposed to be one of the benefits? That a user (or a developer) doesn't have to wait for some corporate bigwig to work "bug fixing" into a release schedule but that "millions of eyes make all bugs shallow"? But it's not that simple. Opera either has fewer bugs, or they're just not so obvious. I say this as a Firefox user (but not because I love it).


    I still don't see this as revolutionary. But then, I'm still trying to figure out the point of Twitter, MySpace, Gmail, and all that other junk. I think nerds forget how large the group is of internet users who don't use any of those things, and don't go online primarily to do social thingies (other than via email). Plus, of the nerds, a lot of us have servers. Doesn't a true revolution end up affecting areas outside its circle? So far, Google itself (or maybe just "internet search engines") is a revolution, extending beyond the actual internet in affecting how people behave, think, their terminology (maybe not in the back acres, but certainly it's reached grandma). Email was a revolution. What's Twitter? Still primarily the main means of people to talk about themselves in 150 characters like what they ate for breakfast. And it's actually kinda old, only recently hitting its stride and starting to do something else. This Opera Untie has a long road ahead of it.

    *edit lawlz, bad spellers of the world, untie!

  21. #46
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stomme poes View Post
    [ot]This Opera Untie has a long road ahead of it.
    It's a simple feature added to your browser. Think of them like plug-ins. They all work pretty well. I can see a use for them now. Say for instance you want to chat, about something confidential, you can do it on Opera, no need to use Yahoo and Skype, after all, not everybody has a those accounts. Just host open a Lounge, give them a link, and that's it. You can password protect you lounge if you want. Simple.

    You can also hear your friend music. Excellent for listening to lecture notes, and DJ mixes, not to mention an odd new releases you want to share with your friends.

    And host a web server, so you and your friends can share notes. Not everybody knows how to access an FTP account, and students aged 15 don't have credit cards to open ftp accounts in order to store files.

    Unite is a simple way, which require hardly any knowledge. I can see this picking up very quickly amongst the youth. I feel it has already gone most of the way.

  22. #47
    whagwan? silver trophybronze trophy akritic's Avatar
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    A long road yes... after all it is just an alpha with bare-bones services at the moment. What will decide if it is to become a success (In my view) is coupling Unite not just with other Unite users but with existing sites API's. That may be a long way off at present but hopefully there will be some interesting services created for it.

  23. #48
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Another Firefox fanboy resorting to immature and vulgar language to get his biased point across. Yawn.
    Forget the "why isn't opera open source" part for a second (personally I think Opera can do whatever they want with their products) and focus on his bigger and IMO better argument: that the layperson doesn't care if their services and data are hosted in the cloud as long as they have some trust in the provider they're using. Opera has a larger conceptual hurdle to overcome there since it's mostly geeks that care about "owning" their data, whatever that means.

  24. #49
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armchaircritic View Post
    The basis of Unite is your browser acting as a mini-server, whereby you can share your documents etc effectively over the web, without having to upload anything. This is just what is here in this alpha, later I'm sure more ingenious uses will be found for it.
    You mean like some kind of cool P2P service? (Haven't read the documentation, I have too much work and I'd be tempted to do play with this and then I will not work)

  25. #50
    whagwan? silver trophybronze trophy akritic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molona View Post
    You mean like some kind of cool P2P service? (Haven't read the documentation, I have too much work and I'd be tempted to do play with this and then I will not work)
    Sort of, yes. But remember that at present the only services are simple ones created for demonstration purposes. There's probably a lot of scope to create simpler or even more complext services that don't necessarily need to be p2p.


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