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  1. #26
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    All right, I hate to say this, but if the anti-Microsoft commentary is going to flare up here like a Southern California wildfire, then the staff will be left with no choice but to close this thread.

    Please, at the very least, take the M$ bashing private (or better yet, off site; best yet; don't do it at all).

    To quote a character portrayed by an actor who's name I've long since forgotten... "can't we all just get along?"

  2. #27
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    great version thank you for reviewing

  3. #28
    SitePoint Zealot riderbabygurl's Avatar
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    My cousin loves opera but I still prefer to use firefox. Anyway thanks for the update news about opera

  4. #29
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    geosite, just in closing for the point, while you see a monopoly, I simply do not, Microsoft has had a very limited success rate in terms of web services, even though IE is one of these through embedding it in the OS, the problem with the whole perception of cheering for either IE or Netscape is that both were criminally resorting to propriatory elements and forcing developers into a spiral of trying to cope for two browsers (having two pages). Netscape's bad actions did not stop until they gave the code to the people so really, cheering for either team was a pointless endevour because if Netscape did win the browser wars, everyone would be snarling at AOL rather than Microsoft at the moment (since AOL baught nutterscape).

    As for the key word being monopolism, I don't really see you making these kind of posts against Google who are the dominator of the web, the comparitive with fuel is rather limited also because like you said yourself, there are choices and competition. You really have no right to bash MS for anything relating to the Internet when healthy competition is at a steady and progressive rate of inclination.

    That is pretty much all I have to say on the subject.

  5. #30
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    The default theme for this is definitely more user friendly then Opera 9. The tab view doesn't really add anything to functionality it is more of a gimmick than an upgrade. Opera Turbo really does help when my connection gets slow. This version of Opera is definitely a step in the right direction.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    That is pretty much all I have to say on the subject.
    Good. I have far more to say about it on various websites, blogs and forums.

    In the meantime, I stand by everything I've posted on this thread. The fact that Opera is my DEFAULT browser indicates the respect I have for it from a technical perspective. I think it's very unfortunate that Opera does'nt have the support group that elevates the corporate giants (IE, Safari and Chrome) and the open source champion (Firefox).

    It's difficult to see Opera fariing much better with still more browsers entering the competition (e.g. Chrome and Fennec). Nevertheless, the fierce competition between all these innovative players can only benefit the community.

    I thank Opera for raising the bar, and I hope it eventually finds the fan club it deseves.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Good points, geosite— what you've said goes with my understanding of why Opera is least-known in the Grandma user world. I didn't see any Opera-bashing or M$-bashing in that post at all. It [Opera] has no mystique, no rebel yell, and comes from Norway : ) The reason I still use FF as my default browser (despite that I'm actually no fan of it, know it's bloated all to hell and open-source or no, they leave bugs sitting on the sidelines for 10 YEARS at a time!!! grrrr) is, I think mostly the way Opera feels.

    I use IE only for testing but it pretty much has the same "feel" as FF. Same shortcuts (whatever few shortcuts I use), tabs through the page the same (I always need to look up Opera's special keys to check my skip links who sit off-screen until focussed on), and just generally imitate each other— so being a FF user, I have little problem testing in IE. Safari and Chrome (at least Safari, I do little more than look and tab through the test page in Chrome) also have different feels... looking for the address/url at the bottom of the browser kept throwing me off in Safari as much as Opera constantly showing the entire greatbiglong url as a tooltip did (that's gone now, right? Cause it gets in the way of seeing other things on the page).

    Okay, I wanted to comment on the article/OP, opening another tab to view it (another thing, Opera invents a lot of this stuff, but FF gets the credit. Helloooo, marketing??).

    ...world famous designer Jon Hicks created a whole new look for Opera 10.
    Okay, means nothing to me since right now I have a black Opera (apparently supposed to blend in with M$ Vista??) sitting on my earth/africa brown Ubuntu Gnome default windowing system. It totally doesn't match and looks silly... but it's a browser and I don't care about skins and colour pallettes. So, no points there. FF isn't beautiful and IE isn't beautiful. Do we need beautiful browsers? Only if you're toting a Macbook and wear black turtlenecks while sipping your (beautiful chocolate-brown with cream-coloured foam on top) cappuccino-latte in your Starbucks-alternative biologische hippy-friendly looks-like-an-art-studio coffeehouse while hip and trendy world music plays in the background. Cooooool, cat.

    Drag the handle underneath the tabs to reveal thumbnails of your open Web pages
    I guess I'll have to see what's so great about thumbnails of a page on a tab. Right now FF shows me the favicon and I've noticed that doesn't do anything for me right now, so it get ignored. Then again, FF has tiny-*ssed little tabbies when you have more than like 5 open (on 17 inches even). Being able to resize them would be nice for reading the whole title, esp for pages where some dip did <title>LONG SITE NAME .COM - specific page</title> instead of <title>specific page - LONG SITE NAME .COM</title>. So, thumbnails mean nothing, but enlargeable tabs would be pretty useful. + for Opera.

    You asked for it! Customize your Speed Dial to fit your own needs.
    Opera, Chrome and I think one other browser pester me with most-visited pages or empty squares. I never used speed-dial on my phones, and I don't use it on my browsers. I type in the URL like many other people do. So, no points there either. Did people really want Speed Dial, or did Opera just introduce it and make Opera users addicted to it so they stay with Opera? Lawlz.

    Clicking on e-mail addresses or the Send by Mail in Opera will open the compose page from your Web mail service provider.
    That sounds nice. It's not really extra work to open a new tab and type in mail.lycos.com and then copypasta the email address, but we're all lazy schmucks here and if it saves a keystroke without needing to learn anything new, it's Good, right? Point for Opera.

    Resizable search field
    I've pasted whole sentences in mine, they just scroll past. So I guess the advantage is supposed to be, you can now see the whole line you've pasted? I guess that's good. I've never needed it.

    ...Web Fonts support, RGBA/HSLA color and SVG improvements...
    SVG improvement? ++ Extra super points for Opera. Web fonts? Eh, they're ok, but it doesn't matter, since one could say hey every Windows machine supposed Font X, but we don't use Font X because of all the Linux and Mac/OSX and whatever users out there... so Opera supports them, has no immediate effect on web developers (unless it's a page for Opera users alone). However this might help stimulate other browsers to do the same— which is when it will have an effect on us (developers). Opera++.

    Inline spell-check
    FF has this, and it gives me a nice dotted red underline underneath every Dutch and LOLword I type. Useful in forums I guess. Opera didn't have this before?
    E-mail your way
    Currently I view replies in my web mail with <blockquote> &nbsp; x 100 and lots of <br> <br> <br> everywhere... so I guess I'm used to HTML sitting like text in my emails. My way is, just type around them and send. I haven't used a computer-based email since before college, so I have no clue what my emails look like in, say, Outlook. Prolly pretty bad, since I often mangle the default Lycos HTML that sits around everywhere. Plain text ftw. Opera --

    Opera is designed to restart and recover all your tabs if a crash occurs. But, now you can easily send us a crash report to help us continue to make Opera the most stable browser around.
    Since FF has had this since v3, I assumed Opera already had this too? Already, my older Opera's (9.27, 9.5) remember my open tabs whether my computer was carefully shut off or whether I needed to dive into the terminal and sudo shutdown -r now. Actually, I use my multiple Operas as a sort of cache for old code. Made a mistake? Copy the code from an Opera I haven't opened in a week. Yes, laziness. But that's what good software is for, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy
    The HTTP headers inspection in Dragonfly sounds very useful.
    The HTTP Headers extension in FF ended up being incredibly useful, more than I'd thought. I use it to check which version of Apache someone's using, which charset, how they are sending the document (html or xhtml or xml), total GET requests, what's happening when a meta redirect (for testing) isn't working right... FF used to have some of this under View and Page Info, but that vanished a few versions back. Unfortunate that it has to be an extension now.
    I managed to open dragonfly but still haven't figured out how to "turn it on" lawlz. I think viewing things like document size and headers should be built into a browser's main menu anyway, like View Source is.

    Quote Originally Posted by armchair
    The Opera Turbo feature is pretty cool I find, since you can set it to 'auto' - meaning it will only come into effect if the connection drops and starts slowing down - just the right time when you might need it.
    I'm supposedly on DSL, but if I want to check out anything linked from Smashing or any of those "design" sites, I have found myself sitting through lunch waiting for a page's thousands of giant background graphics to appear— and on many of those pages, for whatever reason, the sidebars and other content don't GET asked until after the images! Text should always appear first— if Opera can let me demand I get all my text content right away and images later, that would be jawsome.

    I'll have to look at what exactly this auto does though— remember when "fasterfox" came out? Later people realised that there are some problems with letting the browser do pre-fetching— links are used for things like asking for a language version and other probably unwise uses : ) Good thing we were able to set prefetching to NO ABSOLUTLEY NOT in our HTTP headers : )
    So Opera uses compression— I wonder how that works. Still looking through the link. The fact is (isn't it?) that the speed with which you GET your stuff is also reliant on the server? I don't understand what Opera's engine actually does with the page then.

    Quote Originally Posted by opera
    For what its worth, Opera Presto 2.2 now also supports a value of color: transparent for setting a text color as transparent.
    Now now now... this is very interesting. My first thought was, hey now we can make test sitting behind Gilder Levin image replacement transparent, so it won't show from behind icons and images... and then I went duh, people with CSS on still get no text unless they highlight it. Bah.
    But I'm sure some cleva treva will come up with some CSS tricks that use this advantage.
    Background-transparency via CSS that doesn't get inherited by children? Opera++.

    Quote Originally Posted by opera
    background-size
    that's a new one to me. Apparently pretty old to Opera.

    I suppose I'll dl the beta on the Winblows VB and wait for the .deb version for Ubuntu, which will likely be after the beta.

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    Off Topic:

    Lawlz, daniel : )


    Actually, you should go ahead and download some version of Opera. You only look in FF3 and IE7 currently, and the more rendering engines for testing, the better. You might end up liking it more than FF anyway.

  9. #34
    whagwan? silver trophybronze trophy akritic's Avatar
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    It's always been quite clear to me what Opera stands for, and that's always been Web Standards. They say as much themselves.

  10. #35
    SitePoint Member
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    I like the look of Opera

  11. #36
    Grumpy Minimalist
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Natively? Or with a few dozen extensions installed?

    I didn't know Firefox had speed dial. Or thumbnails in the tab bar. Or that it passed Acid3.
    Of course it's not natively; it's in extensions, where it should be. The problem with Opera for me is that it bundles too much in natively rather than allowing the users to customize their environment to their tastes.

    For speed dial I use the Speed Dial extension. I also have it bound to my 7th mouse button for rapid access.

    As for thumbnails in the tab bar, I don't think it's as good of a solution as what the Firefox extensions provide, so I use FoxTab for this purpose (although I rarely need visual display of tabs anyway since normally the tab title is more than enough).

    If you read my post that you quoted you'll note that "the better rendering engine" was on my list of exceptions, so I never claimed that my Firefox browser passes Acid3.

    Looking back over the list I noticed that I also don't have any extensions for a resizable form field, but then again I've never had a need to do that.

  12. #37
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarh View Post
    Of course it's not natively; it's in extensions, where it should be.
    Just because you think so doesn't mean everyone agrees. You prefer to shop at IKEA and build your furniture yourself. I prefer to shop at a furniture shop and have an assembled sofa delivered to my living room. That's why there are different browsers – because people have different wants and needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarh View Post
    The problem with Opera for me is that it bundles too much in natively rather than allowing the users to customize their environment to their tastes.
    Why is that a problem, as long as those features are unobtrusive and the download footprint is still smaller than a bare Firefox without a single extension?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarh View Post
    For speed dial I use the Speed Dial extension.
    A copy of an original Opera innovation. Like the Mouse Gestures extension, and probably quite a few others.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  13. #38
    Grumpy Minimalist
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Just because you think so doesn't mean everyone agrees. You prefer to shop at IKEA and build your furniture yourself. I prefer to shop at a furniture shop and have an assembled sofa delivered to my living room. That's why there are different browsers because people have different wants and needs.
    I completely agree with that. I was never trying to say that Firefox > Opera in all situations; I was just saying that, for myself and others in a similar situation, there's still no reason to move to Opera since it offers no significant features over Firefox + Extensions.

    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Why is that a problem, as long as those features are unobtrusive and the download footprint is still smaller than a bare Firefox without a single extension?
    Firstly I'll reiterate to avoid confusions about what I'm arguing: this is a problem for me and others who are like-minded, not for the entire planet.

    As far as including too many features, this is more of a philosophical problem than a practical problem. I like to keep my environment (both my browser and my operating system) clear of excess fluff which I never use. So, for example, I would never use Opera's voice-controlled browsing feature. Yet, it still takes up room in the advanced settings window. As such, I now have a more cluttered GUI in exchange for nothing (like I said, this is a lot more philosophical than practical).

    However, the bigger problem is what Opera can't do compared to Firefox. For example, my environment demands very strong privacy and security, which Opera cannot provide without being significantly more obtrusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    A copy of an original Opera innovation. Like the Mouse Gestures extension, and probably quite a few others.
    It doesn't matter who came up with a feature. What matters is whether or not my browser of choice can give me features I want (like Speed Dial) without giving me features I don't want (like Mouse Gestures).

  14. #39
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
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    I've been using opera as my default browser since version 5 (so, 9 years now).

    I'd say they've done a great job with improvements and innovations. A lot of the features I see in opera are then copied in other browsers, such as firefox.

    Opera doesn't get the recognition it deserves, IMHO. But, immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose.


    I rarely have sites not work in opera. There are only two instances where I have to switch in order to view a particular site. One is when I get the message to the effect of "your browser is not supported so we won't let you use it on our site" and the other is when the site is coded so horribly to match IE's quirky standards it doesn't run right in anything else.

  15. #40
    I'll take mine raw silver trophy MikeFoster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armchaircritic View Post
    It's always been quite clear to me what Opera stands for, and that's always been Web Standards. They say as much themselves.
    Exactly! If anyone doesn't know this then they haven't been keeping up.

    I've been using Opera since O5 and I love it.

  16. #41
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarh View Post
    However, the bigger problem is what Opera can't do compared to Firefox. For example, my environment demands very strong privacy and security, which Opera cannot provide without being significantly more obtrusive.
    How so? Opera's very secure right out of the bat - probably the most secure browser on the planet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarh View Post
    It doesn't matter who came up with a feature. What matters is whether or not my browser of choice can give me features I want (like Speed Dial) without giving me features I don't want (like Mouse Gestures).
    A lot of which can be turned off, hidden or ignored as it just sits there in the background. Heck, a lot of Opera's features aren't even known to the majority of the browser's users.

  17. #42
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarh View Post
    As far as including too many features, this is more of a philosophical problem than a practical problem.
    Okay.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  18. #43
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Anyone have any idea as to opera's motives with Turbo? Seems like this would cost them a decent amount of money in bandwidth.

  19. #44
    whagwan? silver trophybronze trophy akritic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crmalibu View Post
    Anyone have any idea as to opera's motives with Turbo? Seems like this would cost them a decent amount of money in bandwidth.
    Motive? Not sure, but it was borne out of the need for mobile browsing to be more efficient- further strengthening Opera's dominance in that market. It was then decided to be included in the desktop.

  20. #45
    SitePoint Enthusiast zelphics's Avatar
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    I love opera! Downloading as we speak. I'm hoping that it's a lot more lightweight than the previous editions. Older ones, on my machine, seemed to take more RAM than they should.
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  21. #46
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    Impressive: Opera 10 first browser Ive seen get 100% on the Acid3 test! FF 3.0=71%; IE7=12% or 20%, depending on whether you wait...

  22. #47
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttsb View Post
    most of the peoples dont know about this browser mostly people use the mozillafirefox or IE one thing that i think the people don't know about its features or how much it useful?
    Ever since Firefox was first created they've been copying ideas from Opera. Even when Firefox was known as Phoenix back in the really early days of version 0.1 and 0.2 they were looking to Opera for ideas on what to incorporate into their new browser. So all the people who have ever used Mozilla/Firefox have benefitted from the Opera web browser.
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  23. #48
    SitePoint Evangelist old_expat's Avatar
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    Downloaded it and like it a lot .. but how do I set the Google search for Google.com? It apparently does a geo lookup and defaults me to google.co.th.

    I looked in search.ini and it shows google.com, so somethings else must be doing a redirect?

  24. #49
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    I have the same problem with Google.nl, which often has crap results if I'm searching HTML/CSS stuff. I type in Google.us or Google.co.uk manually to get teh Engrish web.

    Does that work for you?

  25. #50
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    I've been using Opera for awhile now and I just got 10 and cant be happier.


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