Newb question

**the doctorr** · May 30, 2009, 19:14

Yea, newbish question, i just started website design and many people say the standard size is 800 by 600 or another size they preform. If this i so how do websites let you scroll down so much if the initial design is that small.

**AlexDawson** · May 30, 2009, 20:40

the doctorr, websites that used fixed layouts target resolutions do not follow the height of the specification, for instance if they went with 800x600 they would only follow the width (800) to prevent side scrolling. Due to the natural flow of websites and the need to go below the "fold" downward scrolling is both acceptable and the standard convention for websites.

**the doctorr** · May 30, 2009, 21:10

So do you know how to make my background a fix layout?

**AlexDawson** · May 31, 2009, 01:18

You would have to be more specific, fixed layout only implies that the design is contained within a certain width of pixels, no matter how big the browser window.

**JamesColin** · May 31, 2009, 02:00

the standard screen resolution is hardly 800x600 anymore, it's at about 3% in my stats. 1024x768 is the minimum standard screen resolution.

**AlexDawson** · May 31, 2009, 02:17

JamesColin, that may be true for your stats but that does not mean it applies to everyone. And I certainly would not be one to ignore a minority that still has over 1% of all web traffic to it's name, becides that fact, fixed width layout's are a bad idea on the premise that in the majority of cases a liquid, elastic or fluid layout would be much less damaging to the end user.

**JamesColin** · May 31, 2009, 02:23

I agree, but sometimes people want to control exactly the graphic design, for some cases. And users with 800x600 are used to scroll horizontally.

And for my stats, I'm not the only one, I've compared with other webmasters on another forum, I'm sure there may be a poll on sitepoint about this.

Of course fluid design is the best, but not every webmaster are able to do it, I know I'm not that knowledgable and I just try that my site is OK in 1024x768 screen resolution with browser maximized.

**AlexDawson** · May 31, 2009, 03:05

Oh I agree, there are times when fixed width websites do have their place however I think perhaps it makes more sense to design for the lowest resolution in use (Even if it is only 3&#37

just to maintain compatibility as I along with most other people hate side scrolling due to overflow.

**Black Max** · May 31, 2009, 19:37

From discussions on this forum, I've concluded that these studies about monitor size do not accurately reflect the universe of users out there. Large parts of potential users are not counted -- i.e. library users, school/university users, other institutional users, and an enormous number of working- and middle-class users who don't regularly get surveyed. These studies tend to focus on wealthier, high-end, and IT-savvy users and higher-end corporate users. Additionally, many notebook and portable users (iPhone and the like) have small browser displays.

As for 800x600 users "being used to scrolling," maybe that's true, but they don't necessarily like it. I wouldn't design with them foremost in mind, but when you can adapt your design for smaller monitor users (i.e. a liquid design that conforms to whatever monitor size being used), you should do so, in my opinion.

**AlexDawson** · May 31, 2009, 19:42

Black Max, actually monitor size can be determined through JavaScript with ease, the problem is that screen size is not relative to the browser window size (for example sidebars in browsers, toolbars, even having the window not maximized can affect the display proportion available).

**JamesColin** · May 31, 2009, 19:46

Yes BlackMax I wasn't talking about polls per see. I was talking about webmaster's reports about their web stats, which capture via javascript the screen resolution of their users. And those include all visitors to their sites.
Of course depending on the topic of the site you will see more or less visitors with 800x600, but we can nowadays say that it is marginal, even mobile devices will increase their screen resolution, like eeepc and others.
Yes 800x600 are used to scroll horizontally, yes it's not good, but that's a fact. I don't see that number stay at 3% in the next years, like we don't see anymore of 640x480.

**AlexDawson** · May 31, 2009, 19:48

JamesColin, but remember, as I just stated, just because they have a resolution of 1024x768 does not mean that the browser window is that resolution, unless the browser is maximized and full screen you can gaurantee the height and width of the site displaying will be affected, which is why designing for high screen resolutions can be dangerous

**JamesColin** · May 31, 2009, 20:00

yes of course, but we can assume that someone in 800x600 or 1024x768 doesn't have the luxury of browsing with its browser not full. At higher resolutions (of which there are an increasing number, totalling 1024x768!) yes we can't assume anything anymore and some might use their browser set at even lower than 1024x768 :-)

Personnally I use 1440x900 on my main monitor, but with the desktop bar set on the left and quite large (100-150px) in order to have lots of quicklaunch icons at the top-left, o my browser isn't at 1440.

**AlexDawson** · May 31, 2009, 20:28

JamesColin, and what if they use firefox or IE or Opera which all have sidebars which take up screen space (such as bookmark links or toolbars)?, that will affect the width available and reduce it to the point of side scrolling.

**JamesColin** · May 31, 2009, 20:34

I don't know if many use those sidebars, but in any case you don't need to convince me about fluid design, I know that's what webmasters should do. I'm talking for those who can't or don't want to do fluid design :-)
In fact I was simply saying to the original poster that the standard minimum size isn't 800x600 but 1024x768, because in stats it is at about 45% and the other at 3%

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