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View Poll Results: Inktomi Paid Inclusion - Worth it?

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  • Well Worth the Money

    8 47.06%
  • Just about Worth the Money

    3 17.65%
  • Not Really

    5 29.41%
  • Its is a REAL Joke

    1 5.88%
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Thread: Paid Inclusion

  1. #26
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    i knew i blabbered too much...

    didn't know that quoting michael in this thread will result in this heated discussion. before all you gurus carry on this discussion abt cloaking, i wanted to highlight one thing. the issue here is not about cloaking. the issue here is how ethical it is to badmouth your competitors' ebook when you've not even read it.

    for your info, i wrote to michael as a concerned customer because of what was said about michael's techniques and about cloaking. and i had no clue what cloaking is before anita's message. this term is nowhere mentioned in michael's report and i thought maybe the technique he described in his book is cloaking although the term is not used. now after a few more postings, i know that what i used from *that* report will not get me banned from Yahoo.

    all of us know how impt reputation is to a person who is selling knowledge. if your assertions are based on facts, fine. but to hit out at him without even reading the report is really under the belt. worse is to get a supporter who posted a message that clearly shows that he did not even read michael's response carefully to understand what he's saying. and he wasn't talking greek. even a novice like me knew what he's talking about.

    your talk is cheap, but it may be costly to someone else. and he has to deal with customers like me who are worried after reading this thread. so don't change the subject to...urgh...cloaking, when that's obviously not the issue here.

    and back to cloaking...it can get philosophical. personally i don't like pay-per-click since it favors companies with deep pockets. but it doesn't change the fact that when you're the highest bidder for a popular keyword, you are number 1 in ranking. and search engines are too politically correct. Read this article "The Mixed Message of Paid Inclusion" by Danny Sullivan at http://www.searchenginewatch.com/ser...nclusion.html.

    so my point is, you may not like cloaking, and search engines may have you believe that they don't like cloaking too. but if cloaking works, why not? and most importantly, at the end of the day, the job of a search engine specialist is not to perpetuate his or her philosophy of how search engines *should* work. customers pay to know how search engines *will* work and how we, as customers, can get top rankings.

    i apologize if i've been rude to anyone.
    Logan Wong
    Wallet Haven http://www.wallethaven.com

  2. #27
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    Chris,

    You're absolutely right. Just because some people don't get caught, it doesn't make it right.

    But who's to say what's right and wrong? When I started online 5 years ago, the SEO tricks to getting top rankings were things like repeating keywords in the META tags, invisible text, etc. We all know now, that is no longer true.

    What's right today, maybe "wrong" tomorrow, and vice versa.

    Some people think doorway pages are wrong. That is what Google state publicly, but Inktomi say otherwise. They allow doorway pages. So what is not acceptable to one engine maybe acceptable to another.

    Re: You seem to be so proud to state all of these sites that cloak, does someone want to report each one to google?

    I think you misunderstood. I was merely quoting what I had read that was published by a reputable figure in the SEO industry.

    Re: I personally disdain cloaking, anyone who has to resort to it is am amatuer.

    I value and accept your personal opinion.

    Re: I've gotten #1 listings on just about every major search engine and I've never cloaked.

    Well done! You are obviously very knowledgable when it comes to search engine optimization.

    Re: And like I said before, there is very rarely a validation for it. Your claim of "flash only site" isn't validation, make a text only version like most such sites do, you don't need to cloak.

    I agree. People should make text versions of Flash sites. But how many do? Also, I don't think it's always possible to recreate a text version of some funky Flash effect/show/game. And if you create a text site/page to promote and link to the flash site, wouldn't they be classified as doorway pages? So if doorway pages are wrong, what do you do? Should non text-based sites not have a place in the search engines?

    The bottomline is this... there is no right or wrong in marketing. What doesn't work for one, may work for another.

    Like I said in my earlier post, I do NOT advocate cloaking in my book. I simply discuss it and offer links to resources for more info. I like to let the reader make up their own minds, since it is such a controversial subject. If Anita had read my book, I'm sure she wouldn't have made the detrimental comments that she had. That is what disappoints me. Chris, would you agree that it is wrong to judge without first seeing the facts?

    What Anita says in this forum and other places about me and my books has far reaching consequences. All I ask is that she stops rubbishing my reputation and my products, as she has already caused enough damage that I didn't deserve.

    Michael

  3. #28
    Level 8 Chinese guy Archbob's Avatar
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    I've been in there diretory for years. I got in for free several years ago and I must say, they are pretty good.

  4. #29
    SitePoint Enthusiast cohwill's Avatar
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    See http://www.bruceclay.com/web_ethics.htm for SEO Code of Ethics.
    Anita Cohen-Williams
    Search Engine Guru
    http://www.mysearchguru.com

  5. #30

  6. #31
    You wanna' peice o' me! Automated's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the help guys, just to let youknow i have taken the plunge and tested the water with only two of my sites.

    Matthew Taylor
    FreelanceForums.com - Do you Freelance ?
    Visit the Freelance Forums and participate in all areas of Freelance Chat

  7. #32
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    Personally i find it hard to accept cloaking is not acceptable in the search engines when alot of the top SE's cloak themselves. How many times have you been redirected to your local version?

    And back to the inktomi question good luck automated
    I suggest researching your chosen phrases, Inktomi can be very beneficial for those niche keyphrases.
    In the competitive areas ink inclusion will be of little benefit as they only provide secondary results and your listings will be buried, but if you can find phrases that have little or no listings in front of ink listings these are the terms that will get you good traffic.
    Hope this helps
    www.madtraffic.co.uk-Internet marketing and search engine promotion specialists

  8. #33
    SitePoint Enthusiast cohwill's Avatar
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    Redirects are not the same as cloaking. Cloaking is when the page presented to the search engines is different than the page presented to the user.

    I usually suggest Inktomi after I have done the meta tags and keywords.
    Anita Cohen-Williams
    Search Engine Guru
    http://www.mysearchguru.com

  9. #34
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    I understand the differences between cloaking and redirecting, I was just trying to illustrate the point that there are many legitimate uses for cloaking. Code protection, location/language based delivery and targetted advertising.
    The problem is that is usually associated with spam.
    www.madtraffic.co.uk-Internet marketing and search engine promotion specialists

  10. #35
    SitePoint Enthusiast cohwill's Avatar
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    If you want to submit your site to search engines, and you use cloaking in any shape or form on your web site, then you must understand that there is a good chance that your site will be banned.
    Anita Cohen-Williams
    Search Engine Guru
    http://www.mysearchguru.com


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