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  1. #26
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a2K View Post
    Also, why would an IT department keep users on IE6?
    Intranet websites and web applications that were written for it and have no budget to be rewritten just to change browsers. Most big corporations have *lots* of them.

  2. #27
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a2K View Post
    In the Sitepoint podcast with Chris Wilson, didn't he say that they were not going to force users to upgrade??
    So that means that Microsoft is actively supporting the creation of millions of zombie computers via the hundreds of security holes in IE6. Someone should start a class action against them for the trillions of dollars that their active support of viruses, trojans, denial of service attacks etc are costing everyone.

    I didn't see the podcast but I did read on the Microsoft site that they are actually planning on adding the update into Windows Update once all the corporates have time to download and install the blocker so that they can at least get those home users whose computers can run IE8 upgraded to use it. So presumably it is the option to download the software to block the upgrade that is what was meant by not forcing people to upgrade.
    Stephen J Chapman

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  3. #28
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    So that means that Microsoft is actively supporting the creation of millions of zombie computers via the hundreds of security holes in IE6. Someone should start a class action against them for the trillions of dollars that their active support of viruses, trojans, denial of service attacks etc are costing everyone.
    Don't be ridicilous. Microsoft can offer all the updates it wants, it can't force anyone to install them. They don't own our computers. Mozilla, Apple and Opera do not forcefully upgrade your browser on your computer when they patch a security hole. Nobody would stand for that, it's not their right.

  4. #29
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    Don't be ridicilous. Microsoft can offer all the updates it wants, it can't force anyone to install them. They don't own our computers. Mozilla, Apple and Opera do not forcefully upgrade your browser on your computer when they patch a security hole. Nobody would stand for that, it's not their right.
    All the other browsers tell you when there is an upgrade available and recommend that you upgrade vis an option within the browser itself. Most people then take that advice and upgrade. Microsoft rely on windows update to tell people about the upgrades instead and have as yet not used it to tell all the IE6 users that an upgrade to plug all those hundreds of security holes that their browser contains is now available for them to install if they want to. Many IE6 users are therefore unaware that their browser is out of date and full of security holes and while some of them are unable to upgrade there are a lot who would if they were aware that they could.

    The recommendation for the average user is to always accept the install of the updates that windows update recommends so that if Microsoft were to recommend those using the security hole known as IE6 upgrade to a version that has plugged most of those holes then the majority of home users would upgrade automatically without thinking about it. It isn't so much a matter of force but of taking the ignorant users by the hand and offering them a secure product. This Microsoft failed to do when they patched all the security holes in IE6 and released the patch under the name IE7.

    IE6 users currently consist mostly of three groups.
    1. Corporate users whose intranets rely on it and who have adequate security in place to block the security holes in IE6.
    2. Those running older versions of Windows who are unaware that browsers other than IE exist.
    3. Those running Windows XP who just think of the browser that is a part of their operating system that allows web access and who haven't upgraded it because they don't know that an upgrade is available.

    Microsoft have exposed this third group to having their computers converted to zombies simply because they haven't told those people that their system is full of security holes and that a patch is available. Microsoft han't offered these people the opportunity to upgrade and these people don't know to look for an upgrade because Microsoft hasn't told them that one exists. It is that Microsoft has forced these people to not upgrade that is the problem and the people have the right to know that their system is exposed and that a patch exists - something Microsoft is refusung to tell them.
    Stephen J Chapman

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  5. #30
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Internet Explorer 7 is listed as a high-priority update, the kind that gets installed automatically under default settings.



    Full size screenshot:
    http://www.dangrossman.info/photos/s.../ie7update.png

    IE7 has been a "forced" upgrade since February 2008...

  6. #31
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    I have installed IE8, my site has some small mistake
    If your site is well in firefox, in IE8 also very well

  7. #32
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    IE7 has been a "forced" upgrade since February 2008...
    So why do I keep coming across people who are running XP and wouldn't have a clue how to change the settings to be other than the default and whose computer still hasn't applied that update then?
    Stephen J Chapman

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  8. #33
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    So why do I keep coming across people who are running XP and wouldn't have a clue how to change the settings to be other than the default and whose computer still hasn't applied that update then?
    Probably because when the IE7 installer Windows Update downloads runs, it pops up a window asking if you want to accept, decline or postpone the upgrade... just like other browsers do when there's an upgrade available. If you click decline, you keep IE6.

    Any Windows XP user that clicks the Express Search button in Windows Update will get the high priority update list and see IE7 available. Even the requirement to have a genuine copy of Windows was dropped more than a year ago.

    If Microsoft were keeping it from the average user, IE7 wouldn't have more than twice the installed base of IE6, despite Vista having less than 23&#37; market share.

  9. #34
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    Probably because when the IE7 installer Windows Update downloads runs, it pops up a window asking if you want to accept, decline or postpone the upgrade... just like other browsers do when there's an upgrade available. If you click decline, you keep IE6.
    I guess its an education thing then. Microsoft aren't telling everyone still runn ing IE6 that their browser contains over 600 security holes that can be easily exploited so as to use their computer for whatever anyone wants to use it for and so those people don't realise that someone else now owns their computer and that the only way to claim it back involves getting rid of IE6 as the first step.

    Microsoft have never listed IE7 as the super critical security patch that it actually is in order for everyone to realise that it is 600 times more important that they install that patch than any other single critical patch that Microsoft have ever released (since it patches over 600 critical security holes all at once). If IE6 were a secure browser then we could live with the fact that it is hopelessly out of date rgarding the standards but why should we have to live with all the huge amounts of spam that are constantly bombarding us through spammers use of the computers running those security holes to relay their spam.
    Stephen J Chapman

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  10. #35
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, where do you get the 600 holes number from? It seems unlikely the code base is large enough for there to be 600 distinct unpatched flaws. Perhaps 600 known programs/viruses/etc. exploiting a smaller number of vulnerabilities?


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