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  1. #26
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    SpacePhoenix's Avatar
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    The only site that I can think of that I've seen use them is the w3.org site so it seems like their use is very rare anyway.
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  2. #27
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpacePhoenix View Post
    The only site that I can think of that I've seen use them is the w3.org site so it seems like their use is very rare anyway.
    Are you kidding me? They are all over the web in some form or another, and they are pointless acts of self promotion which may seem clever and fitting, but like what has previously been said, it’s like a 20 year old saying they can tie their shoes. If you cant code valid HTML and CSS, you need to fix the things you did wrong, not give yourself a gold star for managing to avoid screwing up

  3. #28
    SitePoint Enthusiast webwizzy's Avatar
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    I don't think it makes much sense proving how nicely coded your site is by putting a sticker. Not everybody wants to see it. Those who are concerned about how valid is your x(html) can check on their own.

  4. #29
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    I used to use the Lynx-Friendly sticker (cute kitty picture), which must be the zenith of nerd-dom.

  5. #30
    Floridiot joebert's Avatar
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    That's a very handy piece of information right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    You left out some of the most important tags in the table example:

    ...

    Also it allows browsers that properly handle the standards to print the heading at the top of each page if the table prints over more than one page.

  6. #31
    SitePoint Guru glenngould's Avatar
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    I see no benefit using them but I would use an "Invalid (X)HTML" sticker to warn users about the page if page does not validate.

    By the way I like how happycog added validation links to the footer:

    Copyright 1995–2009 Happy Cog™ Studios. XHTML and CSS keep us crispy in milk. We love accessibility and...
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  7. #32
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    Mittineague's Avatar
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    I consider validation as a tool more than as "badge". Just because a page validates doesn't in itself make it a good page.

    I use the w3c icons to
    Quote Originally Posted by glenngould
    use an "Invalid (X)HTML" sticker to warn
    By using the "Really Valid? GreaseMonkey Userscript" and "Really Valid CSS? GreaseMonkey Userscript" when I browse my site I have visual notification of any errors I may have introduced during recent changes and missed during testing.

    For example, the validator links in glenngould's post show as

    which clearly indicates that this page has neither valid mark-up nor valid style.

    One thing I can say, is that while using the GM userscripts, it amazes me how many sites claim to be valid when they're not.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenngould View Post
    By the way I like how happycog added validation links to the footer:
    Oh, they manage to write valid transitional markup ... wow!

    And what's the point of claiming valid XHTML when they serve their documents as text/html, even to user agents that support (and state that they prefer) application/xhtml+xml?

    That's like saying 'This book passes a French spell-checker' when the book is in English.
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  9. #34
    SitePoint Guru glenngould's Avatar
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    @AutisticCuckoo: I agree with you. What I like about the footer is just how they included the validation links in a non-technical sentence instead of using badges.

    I don't know why but I guess happycog guys do not think they are wrong by serving XHTML as text/html to all user-agents. In fact they also think IE supports XHTML which I disagree.
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  10. #35
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    Yes it does not matter for normal visitors, but still I suggest to put it, because it helps to W3C, and W3C help us a lot.

  11. #36
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    Stickers are really useful when there is a sticker present and the code is not valid. When i see such a thing when taking a website under my support, it's kinda flag to reconsider the price of my services =)
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  12. #37
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    The average user doesn't care if your site is valid or not, as long as it works for them. The only people who care about validating are webmasters and people in the industry. Plus ask the average joe on the street who uses the web about validation and they'll look at you as if you're from mars, start talking about w3c and you might as well be speaking in horse.

  13. #38
    SitePoint Addict tedleonard's Avatar
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    Only web designers and the like even know what the badges mean. Nobody else in the world knows or cares. I would even doubt that the tech crowd cares. Only use them if you're looking to impress yourself.
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  14. #39
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    I don't use those stickers, but I do use some much smaller and less flashy ones I created (I think they're 10-15 pixels height and 40 wide, using Silkscreen font). They're also only put in some out of the way place. Generally they're also with lots of other less "show boating" banners.

    To me, having them is more of a "I support using valid HTML/CSS" then a "ei, look i r valid!".

  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy
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    I think these things are intended for the beginners that are 'wowed' by well formed markup. I guess if this 'sticker' pushes people to write well formed markup then great

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiggaman View Post
    The average user doesn't care if your site is valid or not, as long as it works for them.
    Actually, it is a little worse than that. When a user sees a notice like this, but doesn't understand it, it automatically raises concerns. Sub-consciously they start to ask themselves what is going on, and question whether everything else is 'okay'. Generally speaking, people consider it to be someone else's job to keep them safe from things they don't understand. Just imagine if the Police phoned you up one day to say "everything is okay" - would you believe them?
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  17. #42
    SitePoint Evangelist Karpie's Avatar
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    I remember seeing a blog from someone here that had one of the tiny validity stickers in the site footer, and I think they may be the same type of stickers samanime is talking about. I see nothing wrong with that and would probably put it in any redesign of sites I build. It's unobtrusive but shows you've taken care with your work.

  18. #43
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    My first real Web site, back in the Stone Age, had an "awards" page where I proudly listed the three dozen or so site awards that I'd garnered over time. How ridiculous. But I was pleased as punch at the time.

    The first time I recoded one of my sites to be valid HTML (150+ pages, what a pain), I displayed a sticker for a month or so before I decided to grow up and quit bragging.

    I suspect that it's something we all go through, displaying awards (then) and valid stickers (sometimes now). Then we stop being so pleased with ourselves and move on.

    Of course, if you disagree, I will complain to all the members of my Webring.

    Edit: Karpie, I tend to agree, I don't find the "microstickers" nearly as bad as the big honking W3 images.

  19. #44
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    Mittineague's Avatar
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    I suppose there are some that consider the icons as a "badge of honor" of some sort. But that clearly isn't the w3c's intent. http://validator.w3.org/docs/help.html#icon
    License and Guidelines for usage of the "valid" icons

    Web content providers are granted the right to use the "W3C valid" logo on pages that pass validation (through the use of the W3C Markup Validator) for the W3C technology represented by the icon, and only on pages that pass validation. The icon must be used as a link to revalidate the Web page, thus providing a way to verify the page author's assertion that it passed validation.

    Note that "W3C Valid" icons are not an endorsement by the W3C of the page's author, the substantive content of the page, nor its design. Instead, the icons are only a mechanism to identify pages that have been determined to be valid, and to easily revalidate pages as often as as they are modified.

    Consequently, the use of the badge is in accordance with and governed by the W3C Trademark License and Logo and Icon usage policy.
    As for the "micro-stickers" I seem to remember at one time the w3c saying it was OK to modify the icons to better match a site's look, but now http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/l...-20000308.html
    Q1: Can I change a W3C logo to fit the look and feel of my site?

    I'd like to use one of the W3C validator logos, but it doesn't match the design of my Web site. Can I change the logo?

    No. The W3C Logo provides the organization with its visual identity. As a result, there are strict rules for its use. Changing the W3C logos is not permitted, as it defeats the purpose of the logo, which is to be noticed and identified as W3C.

    Q2: Can I use an image in a link to the W3C Web site (e.g., to the W3C validator) that is not derived from the W3C logo?

    Yes, you may link to the W3C site with images that are not derived from the W3C logo.
    So it seems the legal image choices are blue, gold, non-derivative, and none

  20. #45
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Max View Post
    My first real Web site, back in the Stone Age, had an "awards" page where I proudly listed the three dozen or so site awards that I'd garnered over time. How ridiculous. But I was pleased as punch at the time.
    There is nothing wrong with awards pages and validation buttons, just don't expect it to make you look more credible. I think website awards are a genuinely good thing to have, they are like referrals or reviews of your products and services, especially useful if done by a known brand. Having validation links again are perfectly acceptable if done tastefully. I would personally want to advertise the fact if CNET gave a piece of software I wrote 5 stars or if I won a webbie award (yea right!).

  21. #46
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    Its more important to state in your list of services that the websites you code are all valid, but it doesn't hurt adding these to a business websites. They act some what like trust building graphics that let clients know you know how to code because clients don't usually know how to view source code and check stuff out.

  22. #47
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexDawson View Post
    There is nothing wrong with awards pages and validation buttons, just don't expect it to make you look more credible. I think website awards are a genuinely good thing to have, they are like referrals or reviews of your products and services, especially useful if done by a known brand. Having validation links again are perfectly acceptable if done tastefully. I would personally want to advertise the fact if CNET gave a piece of software I wrote 5 stars or if I won a webbie award (yea right!).
    Alex, one of my awards was from some guy's dog. A cute black Lab puppy, but still....

    Edit: At the time, I wasn't Max. That award wasn't from me, to me. Max was the dog, as I recall. A bit Pet Sematery-ish, with those red eyes, I think.
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  23. #48
    Follow: @AlexDawsonUK silver trophybronze trophy AlexDawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Max View Post
    Alex, one of my awards was from some guy's dog. A cute black Lab puppy, but still....

    Edit: At the time, I wasn't Max. That award wasn't from me, to me. Max was the dog, as I recall. A bit Pet Sematery-ish, with those red eyes, I think.
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  24. #49
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
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    I used to use the validation stickers, but I don't any more - I can see why you might use them on a portfolio type site, or an the "about this website" page of a site only, but I don't think it looks great to have them on content pages.

    What is funnier is when people have those stickers but have seriously invalid pages - and I don't mean just a couple of silly mistakes or user-generated content, but a huge number of mistakes. Or, as someone said on page 1, technically valid but semantically laughable code.

  25. #50
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    I don't know why but I guess happycog guys do not think they are wrong by serving XHTML as text/html to all user-agents. In fact they also think IE supports XHTML which I disagree.
    From what I heard, and this is part of the problem of the stickers/badges, happycog USED to be valid. Did that site pass ownership?

    I don't put the badges on my sites anymore as it turned out my code would get regularly r***d and mutilated via a template (smarty for those who wonder) and the badges weren't getting removed per my requests... but when redoing just a page from a terribly nasty invalid site, I'll display them. This because of the contrast between my insurance version of their site and the rest of the frontpage-ridden steaming pile-- maybe more of an "in your face" to the original writers who got paid a lot of money to make steaming piles in fp while I toil away.

    So much for keeping a buddhist nature within : (


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