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  1. #26
    SQL Consultant gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    This agenda is nothing but fear mongering to destroy capitalism and industrial development to drive us back to the age of the mud huts.
    news flash -- the world is already living in mud huts, it's only the pampered elite who sense that they are about to lose their divine right to pollute and consume at will

    clean energy, who needs it? pollution is good, clean energy has a hidden agenda!!!

    the largest coal reserves in the world are in china, and china has the largest--by far--energy needs of any nation

    once that carbon hits the atmosphere, i am sure we can all bask in the happy knowledge that we did not interfere with their industrial development
    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
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  2. #27
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    You fell for it Rudy
    Ulrike
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  3. #28
    Pragmatic Programmer halfasleeps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    You fell for it Rudy
    OK I am lost, fell for what?

    Off Topic:


    Rudy, does the number 937 mean anything? Just wondering.
    Altoona Design
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  4. #29
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfasleeps View Post
    OK I am lost, fell for what?
    The fear mongering

    Here is the discussion about this we had a while back. Same thing still applies. Some links might be dead by now for all I know: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474962
    Ulrike
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  5. #30
    Pragmatic Programmer halfasleeps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    The fear mongering
    I feel dumb I didn't get that

    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post

    Here is the discussion about this we had a while back. Same thing still applies. Some links might be dead by now for all I know: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474962
    Thanks for the link
    Altoona Design
    Freelance Flex developer for hire.
    ActionScript Programmer with 8 Years Experience.

  6. #31
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfasleeps View Post
    I feel dumb I didn't get that
    Well, you are half asleep, no wonder
    Ulrike
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  7. #32
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm with Datura still since the last time we had a discussion on this subject.

    I'll admit I haven't paid any attention to it since.

    Did anything change? Are there any new proof whatsoever that human impact on this is significant enough? Or are they still singling out human activities, and leaving out other much more important factors such as the sun, the oceans, etc. And using it to sell films, get publicity, funding, oppress 3rd world countries and other "good deeds" with this?

    The whole picture just screems propaganda to me I'm afraid.

    When I want to make a decision I usually listen to all sides, not only the one which makes me fear more or appeals to other emotions. But that's just me.
    Saul

  8. #33
    Keep Moving Forward gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    Shaun(OfTheDead)'s Avatar
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    Dear god, haven't we been through this before ?

    The end result will be the same, I'm sure... the more each of you try to dig up, the more you'll find that the data has been tampered with or spun.

    Interesting Youtube video I've found since then though, I've uncovered a small piece of Al Gore's hidden agenda. Check it out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQygvUrBMGU

    The larger issue is that of control... and nothing can control people like fear. V for Vendetta, anybody ?


    Before you get riled up and start tossing accusations, remember that no-one here so far said they don't care about the environment... not even Datura. We all care (and you'll notice in that original thread, I was the one fighting the case the hardest). But today I've become more aware of the hidden motives of some of these public figures.

    Just because one doesn't buy-in to the current hysteria doesn't automatically mean one doesn't care. It is always, always worth it to take some time to figure out if the issue at hand is really true, first of all... and, if true, really worth getting worried about.

    I don't buy-in to the Global Warming hysteria anymore. That doesn't mean I'm now walking around burning down forests and shooting baby seals on sight. (Grouse, maybe... but the queen said it was okay.)


    Please also note that the IPCC... which is where most of the pro-man-made global-warming data is coming from... is NOT (as is commonly believed) a panel of 3,000 scientists. Most of the IPCC's members have their hands in the political cookie-jar (after all, it's the Inter-governmental Panel of Climate Change).

    Also... the scientists of the IPCC did NOT unanimously agree... however you'll notice you never hear the opposing side of the discussion from the IPCC's official output. hmm...


    And finally... once again... this video by George Carlin. I don't agree with him philosophically, but what he says here might help put things in perspective... Worried about Everything.




    Last edited by Shaun(OfTheDead); Mar 26, 2009 at 22:47.
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  9. #34
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    Lol, earth ftw. I like my sea levels where they are thank you

  10. #35
    Keep Moving Forward gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    And always remember... there are Environmentalists, and there are environmentalists.

    Allow me to show you the difference... Petition to Ban Di-Hydrogen Monoxide.




    Last edited by Shaun(OfTheDead); Mar 26, 2009 at 22:57.
    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
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  11. #36
    Keep Moving Forward gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by thering
    Lol, earth ftw. I like my sea levels where they are thank you
    I hate to tell you this, but whether we are here on this planet or not, the sea-levels will change. They've been changing for thousands of years.

    Temperature and climate changes have been happening from the beginning of the Earth.

    Consider that the most compelling explanation for the fall of the Mayan empire these days is that the world-wide climate suddenly changed, causing decade-long droughts and insect plaques.

    Now consider that the Mayan empire fell in 900 AD.

    I guess it was all them darn Mayan auto-mobiles and factories that caused it then, eh ?




    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
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    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  12. #37
    Keep Moving Forward gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Off Topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by halfasleeps
    Rudy, does the number 937 mean anything? Just wondering.
    That's his age in cat-years.
    Trying to fill the unforgiving minute
    with sixty seconds' worth of distance run.

    Update on Sitepoint's Migration to Discourse

  13. #38
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    And always remember... there are Environmentalists, and there are environmentalists.

    Allow me to show you the difference... Petition to Ban Di-Hydrogen Monoxide.




    Never fails -- hahahahahaha
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  14. #39
    Headed Home! KM Richards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dekree2 View Post
    Earth Hour is a global effort to remind governments, organizations, businesses and public about global warming; and what they can do to stop it.
    An exercise in absolute futility considering the earth has always gone through
    cycles of getting warmer, then cooler,then warmer, then cooler, etc, etc.

    This is a fact that has already been proven by scientists who have tested
    soil, animal remains from all over the planet to prove this.

    Isn't it funny that the entire earth was in an ice age and it got warmer
    so all that melted away even without mankind doing anything? Did they
    tell you that the sun has gotten much hotter over the past few years
    and nothing can be done about it (the real reason for warmer climates)

    It's quite prideful for mankind to think he can change the seasons that
    are natural to the earth's existence. Mankind can't even figure out how
    to prevent economic troubles, so he certainly can't do anything about
    something a big as the earth's climate.

    It's a shame that a large part of the scientific community is being totally
    ignored on this just because algore claims this cannot be denied...you
    know, the same guy that lied about alot of other stuff.

    Watching gullible people get all scared about this is quite comical...

    The funniest thing about this is the "global warming" crowd
    won't debate scientists that can prove this is bunk...

    Seems like they'd be out to prove global warming is
    real through science, instead of propaganda



    Quote Originally Posted by r937 View Post
    once that carbon hits the atmosphere, i am sure we can all bask in the happy knowledge that we did not interfere with their industrial development
    Like to see wars started, do ya???
    That's the only way you're gonna stop China from doing anything

  15. #40
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    Ok, so some of you guys are saying the 1000-2000 tonnes of Carbon Dioxide we're pumping into our atmosphere EVERY SECOND globally isn't affecting the world AT ALL!?

    It's been proven that carbon dioxide causes global warming, as I'm sure you're all aware. And we're all aware that global changes happen; But definitely not on this kind of scale and timescale!

    We're not talking about the second coming of a messiah here; We're talking about something which has perfect correlation with how much WE are messing up our planet.

    Everything works in a cycle. Every organism on this planet has a certain effect on the earth which another organism reverses - so there's a good equilibrium going. The difference? Just us people.

    And as to the comments about data being created by government-fuelled agencies - it's in fact the other way round. Independent research (for which outside research has confirmed) shows that government facts and figures are in fact optimistic.

    But what if it IS made up? Does it really matter? Don't we owe it to ourselves and our future generations to at least take precautionary steps JUST IN CASE?

    Why is it then, when it comes to a very plausible eventuality, we aren't doing anything to save millions, maybe billions of other people? Are we really that selfish that we use wishful thinking as an excuse to do nothing?

    If that's the case, I'm ashamed to be human.
    Last edited by r937; Mar 28, 2009 at 11:09.
    Jake Arkinstall
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    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  16. #41
    Headed Home! KM Richards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    Ok, so some of you guys are saying the 1000-2000 tonnes of Carbon Dioxide we're pumping into our atmosphere EVERY SECOND globally isn't affecting the world AT ALL!?
    Did you ever notice that carbon dioxide is natural to the earth?
    We exhale carbon dioxide...plants breath in carbon dioxide so
    it balances out.

    Carbon dioxide is not pollution...if you really think it is and you'd
    like to do your part to stop it, then simply quit breathing!


    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    It's been proven that carbon dioxide causes global warming

    How come the few scientists that claim this won't
    debate the many more scientists that say this isn't true?
    Last edited by r937; Mar 28, 2009 at 11:09.

  17. #42
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    We exhale carbon dioxide...plants breath in carbon dioxide so
    it balances out.
    We do, and they do. It balances out. Now put millions of tonnes of EXTRA carbon-dioxide and take into account the speed at which we are wiping out plants from the earth, and think about what you said.
    Jake Arkinstall
    "Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel;
    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  18. #43
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    Why is it then, when it comes to a very plausible eventuality, we aren't doing anything to save millions, maybe billions of other people?
    I wonder that too. If there's a real threat, we're gonna turn off the lights for not to see the world going down
    Saul

  19. #44
    SQL Consultant gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    r937's Avatar
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    folks, i know it looks bad for me to edit any posts in this thread, because i've participated in the thread...

    however, i have reluctantly had to edit a few of the recent posts, as a couple of statements clearly transgressed our rule about no politics or religion

    global ecology is okay, though

    please let's be careful and leave religion and politics out of the discussion, okay?

    thanks
    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
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  20. #45
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r937 View Post
    folks, i know it looks bad for me to edit any posts in this thread, because i've participated in the thread...

    however, i have reluctantly had to edit a few of the recent posts, as a couple of statements clearly transgressed our rule about no politics or religion

    global ecology is okay, though

    please let's be careful and leave religion and politics out of the discussion, okay?

    thanks
    I know Rudy I try to tiptoe… But of course the whole discussion is pointless if one can not point to the cause
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  21. #46
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura View Post
    It is an ideology designed to drag us all down to the level of pre-industry.
    Well if that's what is needed for our planet NOT to be in an unlivable state, I wouldn't mind too much.

    But I doubt it's anywhere near THAT bad.

    I just hope we get to the bottom of nuclear fusion, then hopefully most of our fossil fuel consumption will be unnecessary.

    As much as I'd like it to be a conspiracy theory, I know it isn't the case.
    Jake Arkinstall
    "Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel;
    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  22. #47
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r937 View Post
    folks, i know it looks bad for me to edit any posts in this thread, because i've participated in the thread...

    however, i have reluctantly had to edit a few of the recent posts, as a couple of statements clearly transgressed our rule about no politics or religion

    global ecology is okay, though

    please let's be careful and leave religion and politics out of the discussion, okay?

    thanks
    Okay, Rudy, that's fair. It was the best strong example that came into my mind
    Jake Arkinstall
    "Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel;
    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  23. #48
    www.logoraman.com electroskan.com's Avatar
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    You know in my place there is a 30 minute power cut every night. This is just because we don't have enough electricity here. Well, I think it is a blessing in disguise.
    LOGORAMAN
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  24. #49
    ✯✯✯ silver trophybronze trophy php_daemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    But I doubt it's anywhere near THAT bad.
    It's pretty bad actually. Dunno how to say this without going into politics, but it indeed is pretty bad.
    Saul

  25. #50
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by php_daemon View Post
    It's pretty bad actually. Dunno how to say this without going into politics, but it indeed is pretty bad.
    Yes it is that bad. That is why a discussion as this is fruitless when one can not go into the reasons why it is the way it is. I realize that I myself support the rules on SitePoint not to go into politics. So I will keep quiet from now on this subject, convoluted wording will not replace the real terms
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10


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