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View Poll Results: Is ASP and JavaScript becoming obsolete?

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  • Yes. ASP & VBScript is the way to go

    1 9.09%
  • Yes. PHP is the way to go

    3 27.27%
  • No. ASP & JavaScript is still commonly used

    7 63.64%
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    ASP and JavaScript becoming obsolute?

    Was just wondering. Everywhere I look on SitePointForums, it's just ASP and VBScript or PHP. Is JavaScript becoming an obsulete server side language? Am I missing the toilet seat here?

    Another thing. I'm very much into Linux, so don't get me wrong on this, but when it comes to ASP, I prefer using NT or W2K Server. If I ever get the time to fully get into PHP, I'm sure I'll switch over to Linux. But I reckon that's how it's devided. PHP and Linux, ASP and Windows.

    Any comments on that?
    - Pip
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    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Guru nagrom's Avatar
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    javascript is a client-side language. while there were server-side versions, i don't think they ever really took hold.

    javascripts biggest competitor is probably flash, but flash isnt so great for things like client-side form validation.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    Fully agreed that JavaScript is a client-side language, but most of what can be done in VB as server side, can be done using JavaScript. This includes all the server side objects and everything required really.

    Personally I think JavaScript is quite stable as both a Server and Client side language. Flash on the other hand is definately becoming a competitor for JavaScript, but I think there's still a little work to be done.

    Shot for your comments tho'
    - Pip
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    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Guru nagrom's Avatar
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    yes but many clients have javascript disabled. the whole point of server-side is that you aren't as restrained by browser incompatibilities and personal settings.

    you can't make a secure checkout with javascript only, for instance. and whatever you make, will take twice as much work to get functioning in all browsers than anything you do server side.

    you *can* make a fully functional ecommerce site accessible to more than 95% of visitors without any javascript though, using any of the server side languages.

  5. #5
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    I'd go for option 4: "Yes, because .NET is the future for Microsoft server side scripting"

    ASP and JavaScript never really took off basically because of a lack of documentation and community resources - look at the ASP books/sites out there and the vast majority deal exclusively with VBScript (I have no idea why, JavaScript seems like a much nicer language). As I understand it (and bare in mind that I never use Microsoft development tools so I could be completely wrong) "vanilla" ASP is on the way out - .NET is faster, more capable, better designed and offers much nicer development languages (such as C#) although VB programmers can stick with VB style syntax if they really want to.

    That said .NET has support for Javascript so it's perfectly possible Javascript will take off on that platform as a popular development language. That said, C# seems to be the language of choice for many people moving to .NET (probably because it has many of the features of Java that make it such a popular language for serious developers).

  6. #6
    SitePoint Enthusiast appy's Avatar
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    but flash isnt so great for things like client-side form validation.
    That just depends on your Flash Actionscript coding and what you're wanting to validate. If it is a form or such there is no reason why you cannot do it in Flash. There are still a whole load of things that Javascript can do but Flash cannot but I wouldn't be surprised if each did not establish their place. As a PHP & Flash developer I am already looking at how the Microsoft development of .NET could affect my work/business.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    I s'pose, and know that .NET is the way to go. The problem is that I never get the time to even get into things like PHP and alike. It appears that I would have to get re-skilled, possibly ask my company to send me on sum C#/.NET courses or something.

    Any how, for now I'd stick to JavaScript and ASP. Looks like I'd have to go search deeper for help on object errors and stuff though. It seems to be moving out quickly.
    - Pip
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    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.

  8. #8
    ALT.NET - because we need it silver trophybronze trophy dhtmlgod's Avatar
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    Now when you say ASP and JavaScript, do you mean writing ASP with JScript?

    JScript has been transferred over to the .NET framework (its called.... JScript.NET! I know, I was shocked too ), and if I kick up the framework SDK...and its alsmot identical


  9. #9
    web daemon jorasmi's Avatar
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    Yes asp is becoming obsolete but not JavaScript. JavaScript is for me still the best client side scripting language since it is supported on all browsers unlike VBScript which is not.

    PHP makes A$P obsolete in a way. I'm here in the Philippines before, most schools here require programming students to know A$P and they even put it on the curriculum. But when open source became pupular more and more programmers are turning to PHP because not because its free, because of its features, speed and easy to use. Also thanks to online open source community because this is also one big factor.

  10. #10
    ALT.NET - because we need it silver trophybronze trophy dhtmlgod's Avatar
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    How is PHP making ASP obsolete?

  11. #11
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Originally posted by nagrom
    yes but many clients have javascript disabled. the whole point of server-side is that you aren't as restrained by browser incompatibilities and personal settings.
    Maybe 1% of the people out there disable javascript.


    you *can* make a fully functional ecommerce site accessible to more than 95% of visitors without any javascript though, using any of the server side languages.
    But they never quite look as cool.

    I am a php/javascript person. I use javascript for form validation, effects and some advanced dhtml if I can be bothered. I then use php to double check the validation (javascript produces much cooler effects for form validation) and then process everything else in my sites with php...

    I fully agree about flash...I don't like it and probably never will for critical content. I think the same suits where it belongs. 'FLASH(y)'
    Maelstrom Personal - Apparition Visions
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  12. #12
    SitePoint Guru nagrom's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Maelstrom

    Maybe 1% of the people out there disable javascript.


    hmmm, got a stat for that? w3schools says its more like 11-14%.
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

    you have to consider IT departments that disable it in big companies. this may not matter depedning on your site's target audience. Limp Bizkit probably doesn't worry about it on their site.


    But they never quite look as cool.
    no, of course not. and everyone wants their site to look cool.
    i use flash cause clients like it. but i always serve it up with javascript (i figger if they have JS turned off, they probably dont want the flash either) and always supply noscript content for spiders and other unfortunate souls.

    so the consensus seems to be....be a good programmer. make your site work well using whatever server-side language you favor, and then sprinkle JS and flash on top to make it pretty.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Evangelist pip's Avatar
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    Originally posted by nagrom

    hmmm, got a stat for that? w3schools says its more like 11-14%.
    I don't think that makes such a huge difference though. The point is that, the person who doesn't have JavaScript enabled, is a bit clueless as to what the web can offer him, and should rather stick to newsgroups. The web is an evolving information base, provided with technology put out there to bring information to the world.

    I cater for other browsers on my web sites, but keep it limited to IE mostly. Hence that I could hardly give crap about that extra 14% of users. It's their loss, and possibly mine too, but at least I'm still getting the left over 86% that can view my sites properly. If that means that I'm losing out, so be it. At least I'm also happy with the functionality.

    I suppose it does depend on your target audience.
    - Pip
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    Nothing takes the taste out of peanut butter quite like unrequited love.

  14. #14
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    There will be a need for a cross-platform, client-side scripting language for the forseeable future, and JS (AKA ECMAScript) is it.

    ASP isn't about to disappear any time soon either - ASP.Net features some impressive advances, but there's nothing that ASP can't do that ASP.Net can. ASP.Net just lets you do it quicker, and with greater scalability. I intend to pick up ASP.Net over the next couple of years, but I'm in no rush, and ASP classic will continue to be in high demand for a fair while to come! (Just think about how long Perl & CGI have been around)

    I also predict that some pretty horrific security problems with ASP.Net will be discovered over the next year or two, which might decrease its real-world uptake rate significantly.


    M@rco

  15. #15
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Just realised that, like many others, I have misinterpreted your question!
    Is JavaScript becoming an obselete server-side language?
    No. It was just never very popular in the first place, and the number of people & sites using JScript in ASP (<1%) are overwhelmed by those using VBScript (99.99%)!!!

    I suspect that this was because Microsoft wanted to push VB/VBScript (their pet languages at the time) from the outset, and so did not actively encourage the use of JScript instead.


    M@rco

  16. #16
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by M@rco
    ASP isn't about to disappear any time soon either - ASP.Net features some impressive advances, but there's nothing that ASP can't do that ASP.Net can.
    I'm not sur ethat that's true. From what I've seen of .NET it has a very comprehensive class library for doing all kinds of things. Vanilla ASP is actually quite limited in what it can do (I don't think it can even perform socket operations without resorting to COM of some kind). ASP with COM can probably do anything that ASP.NET can do, but most ASP hosting provides very limited COM support (and with good reason).

  17. #17
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    I was assuming COM was allowed when I said that! If not, then you might have a point, but then again I fail to see how the security problems posed by COM components on classic ASP servers are worse than letting ASP.Net apps execute, given that they could potentially do ANYTHING a desktop app could!!! (and this is exactly the kind of big-scale security problem that I'm predicting...! )


    M@rco

  18. #18
    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    Very good point

  19. #19
    The doctor is in... silver trophy MarcusJT's Avatar
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    Exactamundo - haven't read any discussion anywhere about important stuff like that......! The odds of there NOT being loads of bugs in the security model (and other stuff) in ASP.Net are not very good!


    M@rco


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