Introducing Joomla

**pug2112** · Feb 20, 2009 05:05

Notice: This is a discussion thread for comments about the SitePoint article, Introducing Joomla.
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It would have been useful (for me anyway) to do a comparison between Joomla and Drupal. I'm at that stage now - I would have dived in a long time ago, but still can't make up my mind.

Joomla - Easy to use, looks good, doesnt create the most 'elegant' code

Drupal - Slight learning curve to begin with, doesnt look as good as Joomla, code created is more elegant...

I'm stuck - any suggestions??

**mech7** · Feb 20, 2009 06:13

Drupal is pretty much useless if you want "normal" users to update your site imho...

joomla is better but has it's quircks.. just use what suits you best :)

**dmwalk** · Feb 20, 2009 06:15

@pug2112. Not sure what you mean by 'elegant' code. Most of the criticisms of Joomla reflect on versions more than a year old. The new version of Joomla (1.5 series) can produce completely compliant, tableless code.

Rick · Feb 20, 2009 10:35

Joomla allows for "template overrides" which allow you to control exactly how the core markup comes out...so it has flexibility for any user.

brian teeman · Feb 20, 2009 11:17

There is an html error in the first of your "useful links"

**PCSpectra** · Feb 20, 2009 16:58

>>> Joomla allows for "template overrides" which allow you to control exactly how the core markup comes out...so it has flexibility for any user.

Except when you want to control the menu's XHTML, from my experience you are stuck with wha Joomla gives you.

I am also willing to bet there is XHTML somewhere in the codebase where it shouldn't be, echo'ing error messages, who knows.

The codebase is complex, confusing and over engineered at almost every angle.

The docs are mediocre at best and the community is mostly designers with very few who really understand the core of the system and how things tick.

The user interface is equally complex, which is a result of the implementors trying to put to much control in the administrators hands (ie: module positioning).

I have used Joomla on a few projects in the last 1-2 years and each time I regret the choice even more. Sadly it still lets me complete most projects faster than the alternatives, such as using ZF, Cake or CI.

It's not really a CMS so much as it is an entire including the kitchen sinks, lighthing, fixtures, wiring, speaker system, etc all tightly coupled and and not very cohesive. :)

Cheers,
Alex

**sitehatchery** · Feb 20, 2009 17:04

The clients who I've introduced to Drupal hate it. Neither do they like Joomla - too many features that overwhelm the average user who just wants to edit content and drop images into their web pages. That's why I've created my own system that seems to meet the needs of 80% or more of my clients.

It would be nice if Joomla had a "simple" profile that displayed a very scaled down set of admin controls. Or, a configuration page that allows you to display what controls you want to be available.

AL · Feb 20, 2009 19:19

I've used Joomla a number of times and I have to say code wise it is probably the worst. It amazes me why it is so succesfull! Just look at the code, the hundreds of files, the awkwardness of the class structures.

**dmwalk** · Feb 20, 2009 20:57

@PCSpectra and @sitehatchery
It's quite obvious both of you have not even a rudimentary understanding of Joomla, so your comments have no basis in facts, even in versions of Joomla 2 years old, let alone the current 1.5.9 version.

Joomla has frontend and backend access, with various levels for both. You can give a client only frontend access and assign that access as author, editor or publisher. With backend administrative access, you can assign manager, administrator or super administrator. The options available for each level are different. Version 1.6 which is nearing completion will have a much finer control of user access levels. The editor, which the client interacts with the most, can be completely customized, as to what functions are allowed. If you want even more control, you can even customize the administrative template.

Menus can be output in a variety of styles. The most standard compliant is simply a flat unordered list with enough css hooks to style any way you like.

Obviously, any CMS takes some effort to learn and master and the same is true of Joomla. Joomla has an incredible community and the power of the CMS is currently second to none. When 1.6 comes out later this year, I believe that Joomla will be the best general purpose CMS available for designers. Personally, I have chosen to master Joomla, rather than work with a variety of CMSs, as I have found that there is virtually no project it can't handle.

**sitehatchery** · Feb 20, 2009 21:20

dmwalk, my comment is an echo of three of my clients, recently (two within the last 5 months).

In one instance, I installed Joomla and built a custom template around it. I also modified the core files in several locations to make it behave the way the client wanted. At about 80% completion, the client began trying to put content in. Though I trained the client, he was completely overwhelmed and didn't see how he was going to easily manage his frequent updates with the complicated interface.

Now, you've got to understand, I don't think it's complicated - but I'm a professional programmer. However, I am constantly looking through the eyes of my customers. So, in this particular case, I saw it in the customer's best interest to build something much easier. So, though 80% finished with building his site, I -- upon my own initiative -- built a simple content management system.

I've used this content management system on many websites, and have found the niche of simplicity is an enormous selling point. Joomla! just doesn't fit the bill for these clients. So instead of forcing some program on them (the non-technical type) that they don't like, I've listened to them and created something that they can manage. That's good business. And besides, it cuts down on training tremendously.

**andrew.eddie** · Feb 20, 2009 21:59