# Thread: [OT] Mysterious number 6174

1. ## [OT] Mysterious number 6174

Just stumbled upon an interesting article on Reddit: http://plus.maths.org/issue38/features/nishiyama/

I wanted to make sure :]

PHP Code:
``` \$number = 3245;while (\$number != 6174) {    \$array = array();        \$number = (string)\$number;        for (\$i = 0; \$i < 4; \$i++) {        \$array[] = \$number[\$i];    }            sort(\$array);    \$lowest = implode('', \$array);    \$highest = strrev(\$lowest);            \$number = \$highest - \$lowest;            echo \$highest, ' &minus; ', \$lowest, ' = ', \$number, '<br/>';}  ```
Assign any number, whose digits are not all the same, to the \$number variable and see what happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6174_(number)

2. Yup, I used it as the basis for a mind reading trick when I did some amateur stage conjuring back in the 70's

3. Originally Posted by Mark Baker
Yup, I used it as the basis for a mind reading trick when I did some amateur stage conjuring back in the 70's
Tried it with my mate but he wasn't interested. Need to find more geek-friends

4. These kinds of things annoy me. It's nothing special guys.

There will often be some sort of steady-state in any kind of system. Even if the steady state oscillates and repeats itself.

Here's something I found thanks to the geometric series. Take a number, and divide it by a number of the same number of digits with just 9s, for example 56 / 99. It gives 0.5656565656... A recurring copy of the original number.

22 / 99 = 0.222222222222222.....
123456789 / 999999999 =0.12345678912345678912345678912346....
1 / 9 = 0.1111111111....

Who cares? What does it mean? Nothing at all it's just maths. Same thing for phi and pi and e and sin and cos and csc and cosh etc...... it's nothing amazing.

and for the record, pi is not a number, I don't care what people say it's an infinite sum and that's all there is to it.

5. Generally patterns we can't explain are indicative of a gap in our understanding, for instance prime #s. How can you say it means nothing at all, when mathematicians have been incrementally increasing our understanding for centuries?

6. Originally Posted by jshpro2
Generally patterns we can't explain are indicative of a gap in our understanding
Yes, we find it so amazing because we are so primitive.

You say 'prime #s' what do u mean by that? DISCOVERING prime numbers? What's the big deal? Just divide by all others and hope to find no other multiples except itself and 1... It's like MD5, you sorta have to brute force to get your answer. Just because our implementation is poor doesn't mean there is a great significance behind a prime number.

Look at the Fibonacci series. It's related to phi. Well of course it is, both the Fibonacci series and phi are recursive, so it's bound to be related in some way. No hidden conspiracy at all.

pi is just a process of continually approximating the area of a unit circle. But the problem here is that a perfect circle doesn't exist in a cartesian mapping. So we make an infinite amount of triangles to get close and closer. Yippee...

One thing I do like though, is integration. Now that's elegant and interesting stuff. Screw digging deep into a pointless 'number', it means jack. And don't get me started on complex integration and transforms, it's just more mathematical gymnastics.

Just because things are hard to show it doesn't mean they are amazing. Just hard to show.

e^x is it's own derivative. It's not special, there is bound to be a function out there that is, but remember e is transcendental so we may only approximate in practice.

Anyway rant over.

7. I don't think anyone was entertaining the notion that pi was an encoding of a message or anything profound like that. However math is a system for modeling the real world, generally if there's patterns in the system there's patterns in the model, I think the patterns definitely justify further study of the model. If you don't agree, well noones stopping you from disagreeing

http://www.numberspiral.com/

8. You're not getting what I mean. First of all MD5 hashes a message, it doesn't encode. You can't generate the original message from the hash.

My point is that I don't believe there is a solution to generate prime numbers of arbitrary length/size/foobar. It just needs to be brute forced.

6174 is merely something that turned out that way thanks to basic rules of subtraction, sorting and decimal representation. It's not oso mysterious

9. Im not even talking about md5 since that has nothing to do with the topic. They said iterative deepening search was the only way to search a state space but researchers proved that wrong with the advent or heuristics.

10. It was an analogy

11. Ah, I was talking about pi, saying there was no "message" encoded by these mathematical patterns. I understand what check sums do, and by the way md5 was cracked, as well as sha1. http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...36257&from=rss

Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean there isn't meaning behind it. Where there are patterns there may or may not be causation, trying to say 100&#37; or 0% cases where you have a pattern are indicative of causation would be a fallacy. Also patterns like the gauss trick are not meaningless since they are used to solve recurrence problems

12. Just because we didn't know it existed doesn't mean we've discovered something amazing

13. Stop straw manning me

14. look all i'm saying is there is bound to be a number (7641) which when substracted by its "reverse" (1467) gives a number (6174) which can have it's digits sorted to be the same original number (7641). it just so happens that when you do this operation on most 4 digit numbers you arrive to this. it's just that simple.

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