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Thread: HTML5 examples

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    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tyssen's Avatar
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    HTML5 examples

    There seems to be a lot of talk about HTML5 lately with some reworking/redesiging sites to use HTML5-like classnames (e.g. Jon Tan & Andy Clarke), some using HTML5 without the new tags (e.g. Eric Meyer and An Event Apart) and some using HTML with the new tags and using js to get IE to recognise the elements (e.g. Bruce Lawson).

    It's the last implementation I'm interested in: the problem with using js is that if it's off, the styling of your site will fall apart in IE. That's probably not such an issue on web development-related blogs where there'd be a high number of people not using IE and of those who do, probably very few would have js turned off.

    But does anyone have any examples of non-tech/web dev-related sites using HTML5 and the new elements?

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    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyssen View Post
    It's the last implementation I'm interested in: the problem with using js is that if it's off, the styling of your site will fall apart in IE. That's probably not such an issue on web development-related blogs where there'd be a high number of people not using IE and of those who do, probably very few would have js turned off.
    Hi

    I have to disagree here. Many people on this forum are forced to use IE even on here! Dan Schulz for example has to go to his local library to even get on here. That serves IE7. There are probably more like him. About 5% of users (maybe higher) have JS turned off.

    I doubt anyone is using HTML5 because it is still in draft and is subject to change thus causing them to redo sites.

    Cheers.
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    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tyssen's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, but that didn't really answer the question I asked.

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    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    How? I gave you my answer.
    Always looking for web design/development work. Willing to do it cheap to build portfolio!

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    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tyssen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyssen View Post
    But does anyone have any examples of non-tech/web dev-related sites using HTML5 and the new elements?
    See the question mark at the end of the above sentence? That's the only question in my original post; the rest is just preamble. Did you answer that question?

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    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    I almost would have had a site you could look at. I'm rewriting one of my ecommerce sites starting next week. It already uses the html5 doctype (big deal 8p ) and I was planning on introducing some html5 stuff but didn't have the break over the holidays to read up on it well enough to feel comfortable jumping in this quick. I've got more freedom with it since it's my own restaurant but I can't get too risky.

    I just don't think you will easily find something just yet, but now that you say you're interested, maybe I'll stay up late tonight and look at the notes I've collected.

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    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    You would probably do best to look for sites that deal with experimental web technology. The HTML 5 specification is at such an early draft stage at the moment that it would be impossible to predict which of the suggestions will survive through to approval. I can't imagine anyone wanting to risk using something that early for any serious web pages - perhaps in another 10 years time.
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    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

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    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Tyssen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    You would probably do best to look for sites that deal with experimental web technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyssen View Post
    But does anyone have any examples of non-tech/web dev-related sites using HTML5 and the new elements?
    As I stated at the start, I already know there's web dev-related sites out there using it. I'm wanting to know if anyone has taken the plunge and decided to use it on other types of projects.

    drhowarddrfine says he might be looking at it; I want to know if there's anyone else.

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    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Why would anyone with sense try to use a preliminary draft standard for a real world project? By the time the standard is finalised it will look very different to the way it looks now and most of the work done using the draft standard will be invalid. It is only really suited to experimental sites that try out the ideas to see if they are workable or not where it doesn't matter if the site malfunctions. When those experimental sites determine that the code isn't useful then it will be dropped from the draft standard and they'll try something else instead. There will probably be several different trials over the next few years before the standard starts to settle.
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    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

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    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    That was easy enough. I threw together a page with a few sections/articles/nav/etc. and styled it. Everything worked perfectly in Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome. Of course, IE failed at everything as expected but I see there's a javascript way to fix IEs horrid mess.

    I know a guy that does everything in html5 but I never delved into his stuff. This might not be so tricky to include in my rewrite after all.

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    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    Why would anyone with sense try to use a preliminary draft standard for a real world project? By the time the standard is finalised it will look very different to the way it looks now and most of the work done using the draft standard will be invalid.
    There are a number of things that work now in the modern browsers (not IE), or at least get treated as separate elements than regular html. Not a whole lot. Just some structural stuff that will most likely work the same as they do now.

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    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanReese View Post

    I doubt anyone is using HTML5 because it is still in draft and is subject to change thus causing them to redo sites.


    Cheers.
    I gave you my answer in my first post. I gave you my answer. Whether or not it is the answer you were hoping for is something I can't help with.

    Cheers.
    Always looking for web design/development work. Willing to do it cheap to build portfolio!

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    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    @Ryan,
    There are quite a number of people using HTML5 right now but, as Tyssen points out, they are web developers and not general purpose sites.

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    Anyone have any links to HTML5 resources handy, I'd like to check it out some
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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Stormrider's Avatar
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    Doesn't IE8 have a fair bit of sopport for the HTML5 draft?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpchasepoint View Post
    Anyone have any links to HTML5 resources handy, I'd like to check it out some
    http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html
    http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps...ork/multipage/ (follow reference links)

    JFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    .......... It is only really suited to experimental sites that try out the ideas to see if they are workable or not where it doesn't matter if the site malfunctions ..........
    .......... or for playing around and having fun -- Web Author therapy, so to speak.

    JFP

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    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Microsoft claims they will have strong HTML5 support but I don't have a computer I can put IE8 on to check if the beta does.

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    There is an ongoing (and lively) discussion on the W3C html public mailing list at http://www.nabble.com/w3.org---www-html-f11692.html entitled "HTML 5 and XHTML 2 combined" that I am sure will be of great interest to the participants on this thread.

    JFP
    Last edited by jamesicus; Jan 15, 2009 at 13:34. Reason: added info

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    The new structure elements of HTML5 include aside, figure and section. The new inline elements include time, meter, and progress. New elements have embedded video and audio. The new interactive elements have details, datagrid and command.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormrider View Post
    Doesn't IE8 have a fair bit of sopport for the HTML5 draft?
    Check for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...gines_(WHATWG)

    (I think the tables are up-to-date for IE8 but might be somewhat lacking for upcoming releases of the other browsers.)
    Simon Pieters

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    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    My position is that as long as HTML5 is still in draft status it is not yet defined. It is not possible to say that you are using "HTML5" for your code, or that you are using "HTML5" elements, because HTML5 doesn't exist yet - what you are using is a language that is based on a particular HTML5 draft, but is subject to change and is likely to be subtly different to what we will know in the future as HTML5.

    Claiming to follow a standard that is still in draft status can lead to diverging of the standard into subtle different and incompatible variations. Think CSS 2.0 vs CSS 2.1 (probably not a brilliant example), or HTML2 with SGML comments vs HTML2 with HTML1-style comments.

    Then again, I guess my complaints would be large assuaged if you referred to it as "Draft HTML5" instead of "HTML5", much like manufacturers refer to "Draft 802.11n".

    Am I being too pedantic? Is HTML5 a lot more finalised than I'm giving it credit for? Maybe. But it's not like there are any ways to validate HTML5 yet.

    I think use of "Draft HTML5" should be reserved for testing purposes by those who are helping to formulate the standard (including browser makers).
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmj View Post
    My position is that as long as HTML5 is still in draft status it is not yet defined. It is not possible to say that you are using "HTML5" for your code, or that you are using "HTML5" elements, because HTML5 doesn't exist yet - what you are using is a language that is based on a particular HTML5 draft, but is subject to change and is likely to be subtly different to what we will know in the future as HTML5.
    I see where you're coming from, and yes it will be subtly different (some parts might be even be very different) in the future. The spec is changing every day so it becomes subtly different every time Hixie does a checkin.

    http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker

    Quote Originally Posted by mmj View Post
    Claiming to follow a standard that is still in draft status can lead to diverging of the standard into subtle different and incompatible variations.
    Right. It's the same with early browser implementations. One just has to follow changes to the draft and updates one's content (or implementation) accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmj View Post
    Am I being too pedantic? Is HTML5 a lot more finalised than I'm giving it credit for? Maybe. But it's not like there are any ways to validate HTML5 yet.
    Sure there is:
    http://html5.validator.nu/
    http://validator.w3.org/ (uses Validator.nu as backed for (X)HTML5)

    Quote Originally Posted by mmj View Post
    I think use of "Draft HTML5" should be reserved for testing purposes by those who are helping to formulate the standard (including browser makers).
    People who are trying it out and writing about it on their blog are effectively helping to formulate the standard.
    Simon Pieters

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    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Mostly agree with you (ie about people helping formulate the standard), except that:

    Quote Originally Posted by zcorpan View Post
    Sure there is:
    http://html5.validator.nu/
    http://validator.w3.org/ (uses Validator.nu as backed for (X)HTML5)
    following on from my point, this is not an HTML5 validator - it's an experimental validator based on a draft of HTML5. HTML5 validators don't exist.

    It would be clearly wrong, for example, for such a validator to inform someone that their page is "Valid HTML5" (hopefully, it informs them that their page is "Tentatively valid according to a draft of HTML5" or something).

    Part of me feels as if it is a bit harmful for it to exist at all, even with "EXPERIMENTAL!!!!1!!" adorning it. Obviously, I know it's necessary for people need to test out their schemas and tools though.

    Edit: after reading the FAQ on that site, including the answer to the question "Can I get a “Valid HTML5” badge?", it puts me at ease. They know what they're doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmj View Post
    following on from my point, this is not an HTML5 validator - it's an experimental validator based on a draft of HTML5. HTML5 validators don't exist.
    Ah, I missed the twist. What you say is true and both validators say as much in the UI, AFAICT.
    Simon Pieters


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