Clear up my HTML and XHTML questions please

**JsD2K** · Jan 6, 2009, 15:53

So, onto html, how about that doctype syntax change eh?

Code:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

to

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html>

Completely negates the want to memorize doctypes eh?

**felgall** · Jan 6, 2009, 19:00

Originally Posted by JsD2K

So, onto html, how about that doctype syntax change eh?

Code:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

to

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html>

Completely negates the want to memorize doctypes eh?

Of course HTML5 is still a really early draft so everything in oit could be completely different when it gets formally adopted in 20+ years time. Best avoid using it for anything serious until then or you'll be constantly updating all your pages every time they change something in the draft.

The current live version of the specification HTML is 4.01.

**JsD2K** · Jan 6, 2009, 19:08

I was looking at some of the new tags and some of them are very..interesting...and specific..

**felgall** · Jan 6, 2009, 20:21

Originally Posted by JsD2K

I was looking at some of the new tags and some of them are very..interesting...and specific..

And there is already discussion about whether those tags are the most appropriate additions as many of them are too specific. Many of them are near certain to be removed from the draft before too long as they can be considered as a single example of something that would require the addition of hundreds of additional tags to implement fully as separate tags and so the single tag covering all those options is the only practical alternative and that tag <object> is already a part of HTML 4.

**rbfree** · May 14, 2009, 12:33

Thanks to all for this thread. Definitely it straightened (or... somewhat decrookified...) my understanding about the relationship between xhtml strict and html strict.

Should I be aware of any other necessary coding changes from a strict .xhtml served text/css (and therefore, not really a strict .xhtml) syntax to a html 4.01 doc?

EDIT: also, am I correct with this doctype statement:

Code HTML4Strict:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

And... this declaration goes away... correct?

Code HTML4Strict:

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

Originally Posted by r937

for me, it is more important to conform to strict

i still close all my tags, though (like any good obsessive compulsive coder, eh

)

**r937** · May 14, 2009, 15:34

yes, i believe it does -- but just the attribute, not the HTML tag itself

here's what i use --

Code:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
      "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
...

**rbfree** · May 14, 2009, 18:09

Thanks R,

However, one note: I had to insert a forward slash at the end of the meta statement to get it to "validate" using my editor tool. For now I'm just using the homesite validator tool... which has its shortcomings...

**AutisticCuckoo** · May 14, 2009, 20:41

You should state the natural language of the document in the root element. I don't know if screen readers support it, but it's helpful for search engine spiders and lets users search for content in a specific language.

Code HTML4Strict:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
<html lang="en">
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
    <title>Document Title</title>
  </head>

**Stomme poes** · May 15, 2009, 04:16

Originally Posted by Tommy

I don't know if screen readers support it...

My copy of JAWS v 10 doesn't have Dutch (version 10 has nothing at all but Engrish), but anywhere I put the lang="" attribute, my JAWS announces the language (in English, since that's what my copy has). So if I have

<h1>blah blah blah blah</h1>
<p lang="nl">blah blah blah blah blah</p>

then it'll say
Blah blah blah blah
Dutch blah blah blah blah.

My version 7 comes with a few other languages including it seems Portuguese. The coder for us is using anchors for users to select their desired language, and the name of the language is set with the lang attribute. So what happened was, as I went through the page, each name of the language was read out properly if I had the language for it, but then the last flag is Portugal, so the rest of the page got read out in Portuguese pronunciation : ( I guess because it was the last language mentioned, even though the lang attribute is supposed to be limited to the element it's in. The page is set to nl in the HTML element AND with the lang meta both.

Though thinking now, maybe I accidentally clicked on Portugal? I don't think so because I didn 't go back to the beginning of the page... instead the h1 came next, Dutch words with Portuguese pronounciation. It was lawlers. But not cool.

Setting language with a link I guess isn't the smartest in the first place, since things like Faster Fox would try to pre load it anyway. We sure don't have the correct headers in place to prevent it : (

**rbfree** · May 15, 2009, 07:57

Ok, thanks.

**AutisticCuckoo** · May 15, 2009, 09:32

Originally Posted by Stomme poes

my JAWS announces the language (in English, since that's what my copy has).

That's really helpful ...

I thought the point was that it would automaticallly switch over to the Dutch speech module (if installed) and pronounce those words properly.

**EmphaticAbbycse** · May 15, 2009, 10:37

What is the exact difference between HTML and XHTML??

**felgall** · May 15, 2009, 11:55

Originally Posted by EmphaticAbbycse

What is the exact difference between HTML and XHTML??

They are two totally different languages intended for two completely different purposes.

See http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=393445

**Stomme poes** · May 18, 2009, 00:42

I thought the point was that it would automaticallly switch over to the Dutch speech module (if installed) and pronounce those words properly.

Yes, as my posts says, it did it in version 7 for Portuguese and some other languages (which it had). However I'm guessing I'll only get Dutch modules if I buy the thing. Since I do not have that language on my JAWS, the best it can do is alert me that "the following text is in Dutch". I have no idea why version 10 thumb comes with no languages but English at all, but I seem to be missing other files too, and it doesn't remember my speed settings like version 7 thumb does. Version 7 even came with Finnish!

You can imagine how difficult it is to test anything-- usually I have to make Engrish versions of everything or I can't follow.

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