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  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by zipperz View Post
    But I started playing around with PHP a little and when you get an error on line 345 how long will that take to find in note pad?

    Or find and replace 100 different objects, have fun doing that in notepad.

    Unless you have a better version then me, my note pad has almost no tools.. tools are nice.
    The "notepad" thing is a joke, meaning any good text editor, there are plenty of good ones. I recommend EditPlus, it will search/replace, line numbers, all the basics.

    Here's a text editor I used for about 15 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_(PC-DOS)

  2. #177
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    Have you looked at Aptana Studio? It's not my favorite editor but it is relatively robust and the community edition is free.
    TAKE A WALK OUTSIDE YOUR MIND.

  3. #178
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    I've started to use NetBeans for PHP developing, since I read about it in Tech Times #220. I've tried PHPDesigner and Eclipse, but I kept returning back to trusty ol' notepad++. But NetBeans? I don't think I'll be returning to NotePad++ again.

    But I started playing around with PHP a little and when you get an error on line 345 how long will that take to find in note pad?
    Ctrl + G, '345', Enter.

    Painstaking, isn't it!

    Or find and replace 100 different objects, have fun doing that in notepad.
    Ctrl + H - unless you want RegEx replacement which NotePad doesn't offer.

    Personally I don't have a problem with programming in notepad, but I prefer syntax-highlighting for obvious reasons. RegEx replacement/finding is handy, and AutoComplete Hints are just fantastic.

    I don't think I've used a WYSIWYG editor in... 5 years now?

    DreamWeaver CS4 looks very good, but until it can handle PHP Frameworking, I'm not going to touch it.
    Jake Arkinstall
    "Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel;
    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  4. #179
    Guru in training bronze trophy SoulScratch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post


    Ctrl + G, '345', Enter.

    Painstaking, isn't it!
    :345 in vim.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    Ctrl + H - unless you want RegEx replacement which NotePad doesn't offer.
    /word in vim.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    Personally I don't have a problem with programming in notepad, but I prefer syntax-highlighting for obvious reasons. RegEx replacement/finding is handy, and AutoComplete Hints are just fantastic.
    /\d{2}[\w-]+ is an example of a simple regex, in vim. ( No window popups, no radio boxes or check boxes ).

    DreamWeaver CS4 looks very good, but until it can handle PHP Frameworking, I'm not going to touch it.
    Why does it have to be just solely for one language? vim caters to all, and can be customized to do anything.
    Cross browser css bugs

    Dan Schulz you will be missed

  5. #180
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    Why does it have to be just solely for one language? vim caters to all, and can be customized to do anything.
    I'm talking in terms of previewing etc. Most editors can handle many languages - but dreamweaver, IIRC, doesn't parse PHP - whereas NetBeans does.

    I'm sticking with NetBeans - VIM is way too command-orientated for me.
    Jake Arkinstall
    "Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel;
    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  6. #181
    SitePoint Member wilwaldon's Avatar
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    I strongly believe that you should be able to code anything by hand that you can do in a visual editor. That being said, I use Dreamweaver CS4 on a daily basis because I love how it interacts with fireworks and photoshop.
    William Waldon
    Front End Web Programmer
    http://www.wilwaldon.com
    iphone website design

  7. #182
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    I have to agree with your co-workers

  8. #183
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    beley's Avatar
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    I can't believe this argument is still coming up in actual web development companies... I didn't think there were too many places where you'd find teams of people creating table-based layouts.

    Zeldman wrote Designing with Web Standards in 2003. 5 years ago. Designing with standards wasn't NEW then, but that's when the books really started coming out and people started jumping on the bandwagon. I won't go into why semantic code is better than table-based (layout based) code, there are plenty of arguments above.

    Point is, if you're going to compete with the thousands of competent web developers who are going to be looking for a job during this recession you'd better take the time to hone your skills! It sounds to me as if your boss and coworkers are starting to come around, and you have a real opportunity to step up your game. If not, you may really see yourself in the unemployment line for just the simple fact that it would be so easy to replace you with fresh, young talent.

    I know that sounds harsh, but before you get defensive think for a minute. What real innovation are you bringing to your company? You're clearly not pushing trends... you're not out on the edge learning CSS3 and AJAX. In our industry you have to keep getting better, keep innovating, or someone will. And they'll replace you.

    It sounds to me like you're up to the challenge. I'd recommend reading Zeldman's book and then trying to build a few sites by hand, using hand-written HTML/CSS. You have excellent resources both in the reference area and forums here at SitePoint. I'm sure with a little practice you'll be developing sites just as fast as with Dreamweaver's WYSIWYG and you'll probably find fewer limitations.

    Best of luck to you...

  9. #184
    SitePoint Evangelist comfixit's Avatar
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    If your boss wants to insist on running a MS shop then you should use the software application that was designed for designers. MS has a product called Expression that was designed for situations like this.

    http://www.microsoft.com/expression/

    You will probably not like it as much as Dreamweaver, but should like it a hell of allot better then Visual Studio which is more a coders tool then a design tool.

  10. #185
    SitePoint Member fades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfixit View Post
    If your boss wants to insist on running a MS shop then you should use the software application that was designed for designers. MS has a product called Expression that was designed for situations like this.

    http://www.microsoft.com/expression/

    You will probably not like it as much as Dreamweaver, but should like it a hell of allot better then Visual Studio which is more a coders tool then a design tool.
    Problem is that once the site is handed off to the coders, you can't go back; you can design the site in Expressions, but to update it, VS seems to be the only option once it's pulled in there (right now...).

    It's MS--what do you expect?

  11. #186
    SitePoint Addict zipperz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    Ctrl + H - unless you want RegEx replacement which NotePad doesn't offer.
    Wow didnít know that note pad had that in it,, learn something new every day. Never use NP much due to lack of spell check (unless it has a key short cut).

    I do like DW but I find my self manually adding code or correcting code sometimes due to lack of WYSIWYG writing. But Iím a long way from writing my own code in a text editor..

  12. #187
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by op
    When I give my co worker the HTML she gets upset because she says that Dreamweaver puts too many errors into the HTML code. While there might be a few errors and unneeded embedded CSS code, it is not the issue. The issue is that my programming coworker does not understand fully what I am giving him/her! My coworker even has arguments with the other programmer because she does not understand the JavaScript! So it's not my problem, it's his/here lack of understanding!

    One responder is right. By having me as a designer switch from Dreamweaver to Visual Studio, it will throw a big wrench in the productivity of the jobs I do. I am NOT about to hand code this stuff when I can do the work twice as fast with Dreamweaver. This is so unfair! They are leveraging these two designers and throwing me out to dry! This is being done out of pure ignorance!

    ASP can just as easily be done in Dreamweaver as it can be in Visual Studio, can it not? So why not do it in Dreameaver. After all, Dreamweaver works smoother with the entire Abobe family of products.

    I can see I have a war ahead of me.
    Let me make revisions for the ASP programmer

    When I give my co worker the HTML she gets upset because she says that Dreamweaver puts too many errors into the HTML code. While there might be a few errors and unneeded embedded CSS code, it is not the issue. The issue is that my programming coworker does not understand fully what I am giving him/her! My coworker even has arguments with the other programmer because she does not understand the JavaScript! So it's not my problem, it's his/here lack of understanding!
    I am NOT about to hand code this stuff when I can do the work twice as fast with Visual Studio. This is so unfair! They are leveraging these two designers and throwing me out to dry! This is being done out of pure ignorance!

    CSS can just as easily be done in Visual Studio as it can be in Dreamweaver, can it not? So why not do it in Visual Studio. After all, Visual Studio works smoother with the entire Abobe family of products.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
    http://www.CodeFundamentals.com

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Designer View Post
    By illuminating Dreamweaver would be to slow down the design process significantly!
    Illuminating? I think you might mean "eliminating."

  14. #189
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    When web development is concerned, I personally wouldn't hire anyone who can't write valid XHTML and CSS or someone who can't work without a WYSIWYG editor. Knowing HTML, CSS, Javascript and browser quirks inside and out is a must have requirement for a web developer and reliance on Dreamweaver or similar software will prevent most people from getting that kind of in-depth knowledge.

    As for people complaining that it takes a lot of time to do 'code' by hand, if most of your development time is spent typing code then I guarantee you're doing it wrong somehow. Making websites 'by hand' (with a good text editor like EditPlus or my new favorite the free and open-source Notepad++) is a breeze if you don't have to look up stuff and wonder why this doesn't look properly in this or that browser.

  15. #190
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    I personally hardcode, but it's what you got used to probably. You still need to listen to your coworkers and think about the code you produce critically. It may be a dent in your productivity if you have to stop using Dreamweaver, but may be it's a dent in hers/theirs if she/they have to use your files and she/they have to condition them every time. Man, it's always easy to shift the blame, try to do some introspection.

  16. #191
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    The only time I use the Dreamweaver layout view is when the code is written so poorly by other "designers" -- with tables and inline styles -- that I can't understand what the heck I'm looking at unless I use it as a reference. If you're handing programmers garbage, it makes their work so much harder. Put yourself in their shoes - they don't code PHP/ASP in the layout view. They get to immerse themselves in your garbage markup, not your visual layout.
    My website: www.sitehatchery.com

    Recent Article: Dynamic CSS

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by gagara View Post
    I personally hardcode, but it's what you got used to probably.
    I think you mean hand code. Hardcoding is different and generally not a good idea because it leads to maintainability issues.

  18. #193
    SitePoint Member gateonline's Avatar
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    Designer can't use Dreamweaver anymore is a gross error. It's so hard to figure out other editor to replace for DW. I don't have any solution to solve this problem.

    It's hard to program the ASP in Dreamweaver. Your coworker might not be opposed to DW, my opinion is that is a great opportunity to help you learn how to handle code HTML/CSS.

    Maybe she should learn to type 10 fingers and use some replacement programes.

  19. #194
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    I personally use e-texteditor. I find it very practical for html/css since you can preview what you are doing live. I don't remember the name of the feature.

    If the creator of the thread is still here, it looks to me that you are not skilled enough. I mean, you are complaining about what all your co-workers know or do not know but it's you who can keep up.

    Like someone said back there, IDEs are helpful to improve productivity but you have to know what you are doing.

    PS: Talking about skills, you sound like a Diva, yet your sites sucks.

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by junjun View Post
    I'm going to assume that this is the issue
    Dreamweaver is fully capable of writing error 'free' code, it's up to you. The generated code is *very* customizable. Try to listen to your coworker. I don't say this to be a smartass, but sometimes it helps if you try to understand where people are coming from.

    She might not be directly opposed to Dreamweaver, but more so towards invalid code. You can't blame DW for this. To me it sounds like this would be a geat opportunity to learn how to handcode HTML/CSS.
    Couldn't agree more. If you are relying on application generated code instead of hand written code this might be the core of the problem. Either way, find out exactly what the programmer wants and tell then you are amenable to change the way your are writing your code.

    This seems like the most reasonable way for you to not only keep your application but improve your coding skills as well.
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  21. #196
    SitePoint Member zedomax's Avatar
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    Actually, I think Dreamweaver is kinda old these days. I use straight HTML/CSS these days SSH2 to the server or running on my Linux box, that's the more "efficient" coding w/o all the extra code junk DW brings.

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by zedomax View Post
    Actually, I think Dreamweaver is kinda old these days. I use straight HTML/CSS these days SSH2 to the server or running on my Linux box, that's the more "efficient" coding w/o all the extra code junk DW brings.
    Dreamweaver isnt old at all lad. Dreamweaver is probably the most used editor out there since alot of businesses and website developers code in dreamweaver.

  23. #198
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    I've heard Dreamweaver CS4 is supposed to be really good.

  24. #199
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    Try reading some reviews

  25. #200
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    Are you telling ME to read some reviews or just readers here in general? I actually have, and I think it was a SitePoint review that said they liked it. I don't use it myself so am not likely to get the CS4 version although I'm not entirely ruling it out.


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