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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Visual Web Developer vs Dreamweaver

    Hi all I've been using Dreamweaver for some time now and was wondering...

    Questions:

    Whats the difference between Visual Web Developer & Dreamweaver?
    What are the benefits of using one over the other?
    What scripting languages will you need?

    I'm really looking for as much information about what benefits I'll have if I leave Dreamweaver behind and start using Visual Studio... or should I stay with DW?

    Thanks
    The more you learn.... the more you learn there is more to learn.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Anyone? Thanks
    The more you learn.... the more you learn there is more to learn.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Evangelist Ed Seedhouse's Avatar
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    They are both about equally bad, as are all of the so-called "wysiwyg" web editors. They are based on a lie, namely the lie that there is or can be a single "what you get" on the web. There isn't. The web is not paper, and was designed from ground up not to be paper.

    WYSIWYG editors treat the web as if it were paper, and so create bad web pages.

    Learn semantic html for markup, CSS for presentation, Javascript for behaviour, and stop wasting your time with "wysiwyg" editors.
    Ed Seedhouse

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Yes thanks

    Learn semantic html for markup, CSS for presentation, Javascript for behaviour, and stop wasting your time with "wysiwyg" editors.
    I already know about CSS HTML a bit of Javascript but just want the views which is best. Theres a lot of jobs for asp.net hardcoding is good but when it come to developing rich database applications a don't think you get very far just with notepad.

    I'm more concerned about what benefits I'll be getting from visual studio / visual web developer than dreamweaver?

    Thanks for the input and views speed house
    The more you learn.... the more you learn there is more to learn.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by computerbarry View Post
    Yes thanks



    I already know about CSS HTML a bit of Javascript but just want the views which is best. Theres a lot of jobs for asp.net hardcoding is good but when it come to developing rich database applications a don't think you get very far just with notepad.

    I'm more concerned about what benefits I'll be getting from visual studio / visual web developer than dreamweaver?

    Thanks for the input and views speed house
    I respectfully disagree that they are both bad and are lies.

    These are the facts: When you use these webs editors or WYSIWYG, they can make one "perplexed" regarding writing codes yourself. If you dont know the codes or hand writing them then you are going to have lots of problem when you run into problems using either editors.

    Example: In Dreamweaver, CS3 when you insert a div, and apply the Overflow auto function, it does not work in Dreamweaver even though Dreamweaver applies the code, it does not show the fix in design view unless you view it in the browser.
    Another example: WYSIWYG is like having a Car but not able to read the dash board when a function is telling you something or going bad.

    So both will write codes for you - but if there is a problem with the codes, you have to be able to open the hood and do hand repairs.

    If there is anyone in this forum who develops a fully rich website in notepad, I would like to send you a medal.

    To sum it up:

    Visual Web developer: comes with a built in "testing server" for creating dynamic pages, so if you are using a version of windows that does not have server installed, you are good to go.

    Visual Web developer: You can test your website locally and not worry about putting pages up to the internet or a company server where you can compromise security or privacy based on the content you are working on.

    With Dreamweaver CS3 and below, you have to install a server like Apache or others on your computer.

    Basically I use both, If your interest is developing dynamic pages then Visual Web developer: is the way to go.

    Visual Web developer: is free, well the express edition, Dreamweaver is not free.

    Another thing is, you don't have to work in design view, you can do all your hand coding in code view and check this. IntelliSense will save your life.


    IC

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Just find an old version of HomeSite+. All of the coding completion goodness and none of the wysiwyg nonsense. I've also heard good things about more modern coding programs such as Crimson Editor and UltraEdit.

    You say terrific things about VWD but I can't get past the fact that it's a Microsoft product. I find myself thinking "Front Page" and shuddering.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic_creator View Post
    If there is anyone in this forum who develops a fully rich website in notepad, I would like to send you a medal.
    I'm redesigning the 1000+ page site in my sig in EditPad Lite, does that count?

  8. #8
    SitePoint Evangelist Ed Seedhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by computerbarry View Post
    Thanks for the input and views speed house
    I'll thank you to take the care to use my actual name. I expressed an opinion, you don't need to belittle or insult me.
    Ed Seedhouse

  9. #9
    SitePoint Evangelist Ed Seedhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by computerbarry View Post
    I'm more concerned about what benefits I'll be getting from visual studio / visual web developer than dreamweaver?
    With either you will get the "benefit" of creating lousy web pages. The web is not paper. Nothing you can do will make it into paper.

    Feel free to waste your time trying, though, if that's what you really want to do.
    Ed Seedhouse

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Max View Post
    Just find an old version of HomeSite+. All of the coding completion goodness and none of the wysiwyg nonsense. I've also heard good things about more modern coding programs such as Crimson Editor and UltraEdit.

    You say terrific things about VWD but I can't get past the fact that it's a Microsoft product. I find myself thinking "Front Page" and shuddering.

    Visual Web Developer Express edition is free and a great way to start hand writing your own code. Free is always better for me.

    When you are trying to learn something and don't have tons of money, "free" can be very useful. It's a matter of personal preference.

    I'm trying to learn ASP.NET 3.5 and I cannot think of a better tool then VWD.

    IC

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
    With either you will get the "benefit" of creating lousy web pages. The web is not paper. Nothing you can do will make it into paper.

    Feel free to waste your time trying, though, if that's what you really want to do.
    You are making an argument without stating your reason. This can be hard on somebody looking for information.

    Okay, you say a product is horrible. What makes it horrible? What is your story? What is your experience with this product. Your information regarding this product will help this guy make wise decisions regarding which way to go.

    Dreamweaver is the most prolific web tools out there and there are other great ones.

    The fact is there is code view, if you don't want the WYSIWYG, you can just disable it.

    Tells use your experience with these two products. I'm always looking to learn something new.

    IC

  12. #12
    From space with love silver trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic_creator View Post
    If there is anyone in this forum who develops a fully rich website in notepad, I would like to send you a medal.
    I'm creating a BB-MMORPG (basically a browser-based game) which has a php and MySQL back-end. With the site being a game, I have to hand-code most of it so i decided to also handcode the HTML.

    I'm using Crimson Editor.
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Evangelist Ed Seedhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic_creator View Post
    You are making an argument without stating your reason.
    Moving the goalposts! The OP asked for an opinion, I gave it.

    Although actually I also gave reasons, namely that there is no "WYG" on the web, so "WYS" is hardly ever "WYG". The web is not paper! You can't make it into paper, I can't make it into paper. It isn't paper and was designed not to be paper. "WYSIWYG" doesn't work on the web for that reason alone.

    But as I said, feel free to ignore me and waste your time on a fruitless comparison of "WYSIWYG" editors. It's your life and your time to waste if that's what you really want to do. My response gives you the chance to do a little research, if you wish, and possibly avoid all that wasted time and effort, but you don't have to take that chance.

    This is the Web and I'm sure you can find all sorts of opinions out there and many people who will tell you that you are right. Some will assure you that the Globe you live on is not a globe at all, but rather an infinitely large flat sheet. Feel free to listen to them if you wish, it's your life.

    But nevertheless, the Earth will continue to be roughly globular, and the web will continue, inconviniently, not to be paper.
    Ed Seedhouse

  14. #14
    From space with love silver trophy
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    All WYSIWYG editors add a load of "baggage" to the code they generate (MS Word is the worst one for that which i've come across). OP you'd be better off handcoding using a program such as Crimson Editor or Notepad++ (both of them are free), they have features such as keyword highlighting and highlight things like constants, varables in different colours. You'll find that the more you hand code, the more you will learn.
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  15. #15
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Instead of Visual Web Developer, you should look at Microsoft Expression Web.
    http://www.microsoft.com/expression/...w.aspx?key=web

    Btw guys...Dreamweaver, Visual Web Developer, and Expression Web all have code views, making the WYSIWYG portion optional.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
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  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    Btw guys...Dreamweaver, Visual Web Developer, and Expression Web all have code views, making the WYSIWYG portion optional.
    Yup, HomeSite used to be the code view for DW. But a lot of newbies don't know about the code view, and assume that they can only drive in automatic without realizing they can learn to drive a stick using the same program. Seems to be if you're going to restrict yourself to working in code view, then there's too much of hard-drive hogging, system resource-guzzling DW to warrant opening it up and never using most of its features.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Evangelist Ed Seedhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    Btw guys...Dreamweaver, Visual Web Developer, and Expression Web all have code views, making the WYSIWYG portion optional.
    They don't make WYSIWYG practical. Neither is an actual production browser and no one uses them to browse the web. Even if they did that still doesn't change the fact that there is no one "WYG" on the web.

    I do know that DW is a decent text editor because I use it. But I never use it's code view except for very special purposes, and never for design.

    The OP was clearly not talking about using either as a text editor, so far as I can see.
    Ed Seedhouse


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