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  1. #101
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    I think it makes sense to buy pre-designed a web template and tweaking it to your liking. It saves time and a lot of money.

  2. #102
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    First, Make your template. After you make your template, that is when you add your cms to your template. Remember to use <?php include "page.htm"; ?> so that you can save a lot of work.

  3. #103
    SitePoint Enthusiast tokyobabydoll's Avatar
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    Same here. Its not only practical, but there's no sense in reinventing the wheel. There are instances that calls for an overhaul, but most of the time its the same formula.
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  4. #104
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    Almost all of the REALLY big sites are build from scratch. Enough said :-)

  5. #105
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    Depends on the size of the project.

    For the CSS/XHTML, I tend to just take an existing template I have used before and tweak it. So I keep existing element names, but just mess around with the CSS. Find it saves me valuable time, and if it's good code in the first place then it'll hopefully remain good.

    I then either plugin Joomla, WP or Drupal or build a CMS(again from an existing solution I've used before).

    If you have to, build from scratch.
    Most unique apps would be built from scratch, but taking elements/modules from existing work.

  6. #106
    SitePoint Enthusiast Cronweb's Avatar
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    Wordpress is the devil.

    *runs around with a lit torch*

  7. #107
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    I usually do it with PHP.

  8. #108
    Hibernator YuriKolovsky's Avatar
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    Wordpress is the devil.

    *runs around with a lit torch*
    [joins him]

  9. #109
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    Joomla baby , Joomla.
    Small sites and mostly static, do from scratch. Everything else Joomla

  10. #110
    Sesame Street Iimitk's Avatar
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    Joomla? Yikes! Drupal FTW.
    Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Einstein

  11. #111
    SitePoint Evangelist yasha78's Avatar
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    Okay, it seems to boil down to:

    1. Build your own;
    2. WordPress;
    3. Joomla.

    I am quite familiar with 1 and 2, but how about Joomla? What are its advantages over WordPress?
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  12. #112
    SitePoint Addict rochow's Avatar
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    Joomla? Yikes! Drupal FTW.
    Hope your clients are rocket scientists, talk about a "programmers CMS"... it's completely unintuitive to use, not to mention there's barely any documentation, and what there is mainly is out of date, written so poorly its not even understandable unless you pro at PHP (and if the people reading were, they wouldn't need to be looking for tutorials) or for a different version (as they have a million, and hardly anything is upgraded to be compatible with them all). I've worked with it a fair bit recently, and unless its something stock-standard, its quite difficult to do... with WP, I can Google and there's a billion results... search for my question about Drupal and lucky to find anything.

  13. #113
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    I personally prefer coding my own backends and such, because no way in hell im gonna find a CMS that works EXACTLY the way i want it.

    And tweaked wordpress templates look horrible

    from SCRATCH wordpress templates can be good though

  14. #114
    SitePoint Member aramiK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant View Post
    I am going to have to buck the trend here. For the most part building a dynamic site from scratch can be considered dead unless it is a highly specialized site. The look and feel of a site is really one small part of it these days.

    Why code a forum system when there are hundreds of packages available? Why code a CMS when there are hundreds of packages available. For the most part you will find what you need available somewhere.

    Yes, you may design the output of that application to fit your needs but that isn't building a site from scratch. It is putting a skin on the site's skeleton, muscles and control centers. Even if you build your own PHP/Java/Ruby/.NET, you are most likely going to base it on an existing framework that provides database connections and other structures needed to build a successful site today. You're going to use a Javasript library to add basic AHAH and AJAX functionality as well as a foundation for widgets such as tabs. You might even use a standard CSS reset file like Meyer's, Blueprint, 960, YUI, etc...

    Or you could start from scratch and spend hundreds of hours on this work to reinvent the wheel. Sure it will fit your needs but will it be portable across projects. If it is portable will actually be reusable?
    I agree completely, maybe 8-9-10 years ago.. you wouldn't need so many contributing factors to create a website, these days .. you do.
    Time is of the essence, you can still create a unique presence but it doesn't mean it was done from scratch.

    Domain & design I believe are the two true face's for anything "unique".. anymore.

  15. #115
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    Websites to an extent yes, Applications not yet

  16. #116
    SitePoint Addict KelliShaver's Avatar
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    I guess I don't really see what the debate is here.

    If there's a CMS out there that meets your needs, use it. Not doing so is a waste of time.

    If three's not, build it. Trying to make something else that's not suited to your project work is a waste of time and inefficient.

    I'll often build a custom CMS for a client because, while I could achieve the same end result with wordpress, for instance, using a myriad of plug-ins and modifications, coding from scratch and just including the features I need leads to much more streamlined code and a much cleaner UI for the typically not so web-savvy client.

    The question should not be "Do I code from scratch?" vs. "Do I use _____ cms?" but rather "How can I best meet all of my requirements, using the least amount of time, code, and money, while giving the user the best experience possible?" It all comes down to what the client wants/needs, is comfortable using, and is willing/able to pay for. You have to find a balance there, it's something that should be assessed on a project-by-project basis.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by KelliShaver View Post
    I guess I don't really see what the debate is here.

    If there's a CMS out there that meets your needs, use it. Not doing so is a waste of time.

    If three's not, build it. Trying to make something else that's not suited to your project work is a waste of time and inefficient.

    I'll often build a custom CMS for a client because, while I could achieve the same end result with wordpress, for instance, using a myriad of plug-ins and modifications, coding from scratch and just including the features I need leads to much more streamlined code and a much cleaner UI for the typically not so web-savvy client.

    The question should not be "Do I code from scratch?" vs. "Do I use _____ cms?" but rather "How can I best meet all of my requirements, using the least amount of time, code, and money, while giving the user the best experience possible?" It all comes down to what the client wants/needs, is comfortable using, and is willing/able to pay for. You have to find a balance there, it's something that should be assessed on a project-by-project basis.
    Good point I really depends on the project I used Joomla for a clients project. He still doesn't know how to work the components.

  18. #118
    SitePoint Enthusiast EvcRo's Avatar
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    I think building from scrath is dead because for anything you might want to build, at some point, the foundation is already builded.

    It's just the natural way, who spends 1 week to build from scratch an editor to find out tinyMCE for example is free, already done and better.

  19. #119
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    OK, when building large e-commerce websites, I do not start from scratch. I use a ecommerce platform which provides the base functionality and then heavily customise it. But in saying that building things from scratch is not dead, and is really a ridiculous comment, no disrespect intended!

    Sometimes a project will require a full custom solution, as there is nothing out there like it. As as far as the design goes though, we always do this from scratch, you cannot be serious about owning a website if you have a template applied to it that 1000 other websites on the net have.

  20. #120
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    Depends on the site and whats needed in my opinion

  21. #121
    SitePoint Zealot sherl0ck's Avatar
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    well I have a bad habit, I seem to make my hand dirty with shiny new framework.
    so everytime there is a hot new framework, I made a site from scratch

  22. #122
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    What about frameworks? Yeah, you do everything from scratch, isn't it? Well, sorry but i don't think so. Is not everything Wordpress, joomla, drupal... I'm sure all big projects use frameworks, sorry again but i can't believe you, everything from scratch...

    Best,
    Vince.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by vibarco View Post
    What about frameworks? Yeah, you do everything from scratch, isn't it? Well, sorry but i don't think so. Is not everything Wordpress, joomla, drupal... I'm sure all big projects use frameworks, sorry again but i can't believe you, everything from scratch...

    Best,
    Vince.
    To repeat myself (since I stated this early on)

    Facebook?
    Friendster?
    MySpace?

    No frameworks.

    So it all depends.

  24. #124
    SitePoint Member Sex's Avatar
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    I think it also depends on your skill level.

    As a beginner, I'd rather build sites from scratch so that I get a better handle on the way CSS works. In the past I would simply alter templates that had the basic structure I wanted, but this meant I knew almost nothing about the basics of creating usable CSS layouts.

    If you've mastered CSS and just want to get a project going quickly, I suppose that working off of a pre-made template won't hurt.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by invision2 View Post
    Depends on the size of the project.

    For the CSS/XHTML, I tend to just take an existing template I have used before and tweak it. So I keep existing element names, but just mess around with the CSS. Find it saves me valuable time, and if it's good code in the first place then it'll hopefully remain good.

    I then either plugin Joomla, WP or Drupal or build a CMS(again from an existing solution I've used before).

    If you have to, build from scratch.
    Most unique apps would be built from scratch, but taking elements/modules from existing work.
    I agree. Sites can be very different. A simple one can be built from scratch, a more complicated may use a CSS template, and a complicated one needs a CMS


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