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Thread: Html5

  1. #1
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Html5

    Hi,

    When is HTML5 going to take over? Or is it already in use?

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    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy C. Ankerstjerne's Avatar
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    2020 would be a good bet. Until then, use HTML 4.01 Strict.
    Christian Ankerstjerne
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    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    And that's being conservative, Christian.

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    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  5. #5
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    HTML5 official draft was already released.

    You can read updates from W3.org's website.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
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    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Draft. Not an offiical recommendation. Yet. And probably won't be for another 20 years.

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    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Schulz View Post
    Draft. Not an offiical recommendation. Yet. And probably won't be for another 20 years.
    Which is why I said draft.

    There are things in the HTMl5 draft that HTML wasn't designed to do. I'm not happy with it.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy
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    A better question might be:

    When is ie6 going to die

  9. #9
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    One can only hope. I hope by the time I turn 18 and get a real job it will be dead. Probably won't though.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
    http://www.CodeFundamentals.com

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    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper.semantics View Post
    A better question might be:

    When is ie6 going to die
    Probably around the same time HTML5 becomes a full recommendation …
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

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    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    Probably around the same time HTML5 becomes a full recommendation
    I would hope that HTML5 has been totally rewritten by then to get rid of all the garbage that was added - if not then we will have just replace d one problem with another.

    There are more tags in HTML4 that need to be deprecated. The remaining tags then cover everything necessary. Most of what is suggested to be added should be done using <object>
    Stephen J Chapman

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    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  12. #12
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    Hell ya!

    The draft of HTML5 should get rid of some browsers (if only) and get rid of the depreciated crap! Noone likes them (it) anyway! It's like that smelly kid in class.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    I would hope that HTML5 has been totally rewritten by then to get rid of all the garbage that was added - if not then we will have just replace d one problem with another.
    I agree, but I won't hold my breath.

    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    There are more tags in HTML4 that need to be deprecated. The remaining tags then cover everything necessary. Most of what is suggested to be added should be done using <object>
    There's a couple of element types still allowed in HTML 4.01 Strict that I wouldn't mind getting rid of (big and small). I'd also like to lose a whole bunch of remaining presentational attributes, plus the event attributes, to further promote the separation of content from presentation and behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoltZ View Post
    The draft of HTML5 should get rid of some browsers (if only) and get rid of the depreciated crap!
    I doubt that HTML5 will get rid of any browsers overnight. HTML4 didn't.
    (BTW, it's 'deprecated', not 'depreciated'. )
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  14. #14
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    I try to use FF3's spell check. Doesn't always work. Oh well. They should add that to the draft, getting rid of browsers I mean. I know they won't but I can always pray at night.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
    http://www.CodeFundamentals.com

  15. #15
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    I agree, but I won't hold my breath.
    I am not holding my breath for that either.

    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    There's a couple of element types still allowed in HTML 4.01 Strict that I wouldn't mind getting rid of (big and small). I'd also like to lose a whole bunch of remaining presentational attributes, plus the event attributes, to further promote the separation of content from presentation and behaviour.
    Definitely agree with all those.

    I think noscript should also be deprecated or better yet instead of being only allowed in the body it should only be allowed in the head (where it would actually have some use).
    Stephen J Chapman

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    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  16. #16
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    I use noscript in my webpages that need JS, I put a meta refresh to a page dedicated to urge people to turn on JS.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
    http://www.CodeFundamentals.com

  17. #17
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    You can't use a noscript tag with a meta tag the way HTML is currently defined because meta tags are only valid in the head and noscript is only valid in the body.
    Stephen J Chapman

    javascriptexample.net, Book Reviews, follow me on Twitter
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    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  18. #18
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    It's only valid in <body> yes, but putting it in <head> with a meta refresh works just as good. Many people do it too, though I hate it not validating.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
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  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper.semantics View Post
    A better question might be:

    When is ie6 going to die
    Well, bubonic plague killed off millions of people in the 14th century, and from what I understand it still kills a few people off each year in the 21st century, so that should give you some perspective on IE6 and its lifespan....

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    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy Black Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    (BTW, it's 'deprecated', not 'depreciated'. )
    That would be my car, house, and clunky old computer that have depreciated. And are all continuing to do so even as I type....

  21. #21
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    I think noscript should also be deprecated or better yet instead of being only allowed in the body it should only be allowed in the head (where it would actually have some use).
    While the value of noscript has depreciated lately, I don't think there's any reason to deprecate it.

    Could you explain how you'd like to use it in the head, though? The noscript element is meant to add accessible alternative content, and since you can't have content in the head, I'm not sure I see how it would be useful.
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  22. #22
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo View Post
    While the value of noscript has depreciated lately, I don't think there's any reason to deprecate it.

    Could you explain how you'd like to use it in the head, though? The noscript element is meant to add accessible alternative content, and since you can't have content in the head, I'm not sure I see how it would be useful.
    The only thing I have actually seen where using noscript would actually be useful as an alternative to hiding the content using JavaScript (where you can be more specificas to what JavaScript features need to be supported) would be to use it around a stylesheet where the stylesheet defines those things which are only meant to be visible when JavaScript is disabled. That way you would need at most one noscript tag rather than one around each piece of content and it wouldn't be limited to blocks of content but could be used with inline content as well.

    You could of course achieve the same end result using just JavaScript but some browsers would then insist on temporarily displaying the "to be hidden" content until the JavaScript actually gets run. Of course there isn't any way to avoid that for where JavaScript is available but a particular feature is not.
    Stephen J Chapman

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    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  23. #23
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    And you stil get the gap with the half-Javva'd browsers-- those who can support some javascripts but not all of them, or behind a selectively-blocking firewall-- so now, no JS, no noscript-- double screwed.

    I recently learned the headers attribute was being dropped. Now, I'm pretty sure it's my poor table-writing skills, but I've used headers and will continue to so long as I need it. If HTML5 will force me to take a table and double its size just to get away with using scope (which I use most of the time), then I simply cannot use it (if the draft stays this way until spec).

    The argument I heard was, nobody uses it, or if they do, they don't use it right.

    Could've said that about seat belts in the 80's, huh. The reasoning is poor.
    Bleh.

    Very Not Happy. But, oh well.

  24. #24
    billycundiff{float:left;} silver trophybronze trophy RyanReese's Avatar
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    The argument I heard was, nobody uses it, or if they do, they don't use it right.
    Most developers don't have a proper education on everything HTML. They are bound to do something wrong. That's no reason to drop it.

    <font> is still used though I am sad about it.
    Always looking for web design/development work.
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard Stomme poes's Avatar
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    I just checked, it's for Dreambeaver etc... so it's just barely in the spec, not really fully.

    Let's see, this model car uses an inappropriate safety feature, but since the company cannot change their factories over fast enough, we'll just let it be instead of making it illegal.

    I thought the whole point of HTML5 was to make all browsers deal with the inevitable illegal or typo'd stuff in the same way. I feel that's kinda different from just letting some stuff stay in. Let <font> tags be an error who are handled the same way from browser to browser just as they are deprecated now in HTML4 yet all browsers still honour it.

    Eh, I am truly just b****ing happily about something which I've only peeked at. I will not be using HTML5 anytime soon nor will anyone else, I just like to rant about stuff : ) I do know a lot of standardistas and smart web dudez have been working on this for a while. I just disagree with a lot of it.


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