could one tag have more than one class ?

**oddz** · Oct 13, 2008 19:29

or… any unordered list that is a descendant of a element classed as nobullet.

**runrunforest** · Oct 14, 2008 07:40

Originally Posted by AutisticCuckoo

To be specific, it means that an ancestor of the <ul> has a class of nobullet. It can be the parent, a grandparent, a grand-grandparent, etc.

so who are the parent, grandparent and great grandparent of the <ul> ? Im not kidding.

**RyanReese** · Oct 14, 2008 08:45

If you have this markup

Code:

<div>
<p>
<ul class="nobullet">
...
</ul>
</p>
</div>

Not very good markup, just an example.

<div> would be the grandparent of <ul>. <p> would be the parent. Understand where I am going?

**RyanReese** · Oct 14, 2008 08:45

Originally Posted by Aarem

How do you refer to your own grandparents then? Mom and Dad?

I call them granny and graddy.

**AutisticCuckoo** · Oct 14, 2008 09:10

Originally Posted by BoltZ

Not very good markup, just an example.

<div> would be the grandparent of <ul>. <p> would be the parent.

No, not very good markup at all.

A <ul> cannot be a child of a <p>, since lists are block-level elements.

Code HTMl4Strict:

<body>
  <div>
    <ul>...</ul>
  </div>
</body>

The body element is the ancestor of all the other elements, and the parent of the div. It's the grandparent of the ul.

The div is an ancestor and the parent of the ul. It's also a child and a descendant of body.

The ul is a child of the div and a descendant of the div and of body. It's a grandchild of body.

**RyanReese** · Oct 14, 2008 09:44

Yes, I said it wasn't good markup but I thought of the first tags that came to mind, essentially the theory is still the same

**oddz** · Oct 14, 2008 10:33

Paragraph is a block level element so it could. I wouldn't advise it, but it is valid.

**C. Ankerstjerne** · Oct 14, 2008 11:42

The code written by BoltZ is not valid. The reason why it is not valid is that there is a closing paragraph tag </p>, but no open paragraph. It is not invalid because of the unordered list being inside the paragraph, as this is not actually the case.

When an unordered list tag <ul> comes after an open paragraph tag <p>, the paragraph tag is automatically closed. Therefore, an unordered list can never be the child of a paragraph.

The following code contains the code originally written by BoltZ, with comments on how the code would be read by the parser (more or less, anyway), with the document tree added.

Code html4strict:

<div><!-- A div begins here. [div] -->
  <p><!-- A paragraph begins here. [div - p] -->
    <ul><!-- An unordered list. An unordered list can't fit inside a paragraph, so the paragraph must have ended imediately prior to the unordered lidt. Also, an unordered list begins here. [div - ul] -->
    </ul><!-- The unordered list ended here. [div] -->
  </p><!-- A closing tag for a paragraph. How very odd - I can't find any records of an open paragraph. Oh well, the author probably wrote it by mistake, so I'll just ignore it. [div] -->
</div><!-- The div ended here [] -->

**AutisticCuckoo** · Oct 14, 2008 12:03

Originally Posted by oddz

Paragraph is a block level element so it could. I wouldn't advise it, but it is valid.

No, it's not. Paragraph elements can only contain text and inline elements. The declaration in the DTD is,

Code:

<!ELEMENT P - O (&#37;inline;)*>

Where %inline; is a parameter entity reference that expands to a sequence of #PCDATA or one of the inline element types.

Unordered lists are block-level, so they cannot be children of a paragraph.

**RyanReese** · Oct 14, 2008 14:02

As said before it was just an example to show what ancestors of elements are. I in no way say that it is valid or that I recommend using it. How about this.

Code:

<body>
<ul>
<li>sdf</li>
</ul>
</body>

There, use that code to bash.

**oddz** · Oct 14, 2008 19:37

pg. 115 of Build your own website the right way then is incorrect. It explicitly states that a paragraph element is a block level element. Maybe that has been corrected in the newer version.

I've never had need to care, but could you supply the link where you got this information?

**paul_wilkins** · Oct 14, 2008 19:48

Paragraph elements are themself block-level elements, but they can contain only inline elements. The container and contents are not the same thing.

**Aarem** · Oct 14, 2008 19:49

Originally Posted by BoltZ

I call them granny and graddy.

OK, so just refer to granny and graddy elements on this forum, and we'll understand you.

**oddz** · Oct 14, 2008 19:55

So its untrue then that block level elements can contain other block level elements becasue a paragraph is a block level element that is not allowed to contain block level children?

**cooper.semantics** · Oct 14, 2008 20:56

Originally Posted by oddz

So its untrue then that block level elements can contain other block level elements becasue a paragraph is a block level element that is not allowed to contain block level children?

Paragraphs are the exception. When marking up a paragraph, you will not have any block level elements within. Paragraphs should be viewed as a container for long spans of text usually consisting of 2+ sentences. Nested within p tags, mostly you should see:
1. span tag
2. strong tag
3. em tag
4. q tag
5. cite tag
and so on...

To this day, I will see the occasional p wrapped around a division or something rather strange like that.

There are instances where the p tag can be used to mark up images:
1. When the longdesc attribute is used.

There is a huge debate on whether or not p tags can properly convey meaning to images.

I am pretty sure in the HTML5 spec that p tags may contain other block level elements. I'm not 100% positive though.

**paul_wilkins** · Oct 14, 2008 21:20

It's pretty easy to look up and find out.

Here is I think the quote that's responsible.

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#paragraphs

The p element can be used to wrap individual paragraphs when there would otherwise not be any content other than phrasing content to separate the paragraphs from each other.

This doesn't mean that a paragraph element can contain another paragraph element. It means that the paragraph element is uses to separate two pieces of phrasing content. For example:

Code html4strict:

This is the <em>first</em> paragraph in this example.
<p>This is the second.</p>

The content model for the p element in HTML5 is still set as "phrasing content" which are not block-level elements.

There is also controversy over the div element element. Some are saying that div elements should contain only block-level elements, and I'm tempted to agree with them.

Allowing div elements to contain phrasing content makes it easy for authors to abuse div, using it with the class="" attribute to the point of not having any other elements in the markup. This is a disaster from an accessibility point of view, and it would be nice if we could somehow make such pages non-compliant without preventing people from using divs as the extension mechanism that they are, to handle things the spec can't otherwise do (like making new widgets).

**AutisticCuckoo** · Oct 14, 2008 23:52

Originally Posted by BoltZ

As said before it was just an example to show what ancestors of elements are.

I understand, but it's still wrong.

Since the </p> tag may be omitted, <p><ul>...</ul></p> is actually the same as <p></p><ul>...</ul>. The HTML parser can infer the </p> since it knows an <ul> cannot be a child of a paragraph. The </p> tag after the list is an error and will be ignored.

So in your example, the paragraph and the unordered list would be siblings, not parent and child.

Originally Posted by oddz

pg. 115 of Build your own website the right way then is incorrect. It explicitly states that a paragraph element is a block level element.

A paragraph element is a block-level element.

Originally Posted by oddz

So its untrue then that block level elements can contain other block level elements

Some block-level elements, like blockquote and form, can only contain block-level children in the Strict DTDs.

Some block-level elements, like p and pre, can only contain text and inline-level children.

Some block-level elements, like div, can contain both inline and block-level children, although it's not semantically sensible to mix them.

**oddz** · Oct 15, 2008 08:24

That is interesting. Guess I really haven't had the need to care because I never place block level elements inside a paragraph tag anyway. Thanks for clearing that up though.

**RyanReese** · Oct 15, 2008 08:59

Originally Posted by Aarem

OK, so just refer to granny and graddy elements on this forum, and we'll understand you.

Alright will do.

Guess I really haven't had the need to care because I never place block level elements inside a paragraph tag anyway. Thanks for clearing that up though.

What about
<div><p>text</p></div>?

**AutisticCuckoo** · Oct 15, 2008 10:25

Originally Posted by BoltZ

What about
<div><p>text</p></div>?

That's a paragraph inside a block-level element, not a block-level element inside a paragraph.

**RyanReese** · Oct 15, 2008 10:31

But <p> is a block level element so technically it's a block level element inside a block level element.

**paul_wilkins** · Oct 15, 2008 13:34

Originally Posted by BoltZ

But <p> is a block level element so technically it's a block level element inside a block level element.

As artistic cuckoo said, some block-level elements are allowed to contain other block-level elements, it's mandetory in some cases, and not allowe din others.

**AutisticCuckoo** · Oct 15, 2008 14:18

Off Topic:

Artistic?!

**paul_wilkins** · Oct 15, 2008 15:03

Off Topic:

Yes, artistic was a slip of the mind that indicates on some level how I feel about your skills

**zcorpan** · Nov 4, 2008 11:18

Originally Posted by cooper.semantics

I am pretty sure in the HTML5 spec that p tags may contain other block level elements. I'm not 100% positive though.

HTML5 used to allow lists and tables in <p>, but that would only work in XHTML. The content models in HTML5 changed quite a bit about a year ago, to be more like HTML 4.01 Transitional.

Content model:
Phrasing content.

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps...#the-p-element

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