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  1. #51
    SitePοint Troll disgracian's Avatar
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    I already conceded that (see "other than not marking up the site name with h1"). The <img> in question does not need to be the logo, they could be script-generated images for lower level headings. Or it could be a lower level heading, or a different HTML element altogether.

    Cheers,
    D.

  2. #52
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy
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    @disgracian
    What if the viewer does not have images disabled?
    1. He/She will not be able to scale the image.
    You could set the inline image to ems but, have fun bulking up your css with all your headers. Also, this approach will fail in internationalization.


    @rochow
    I usually have a tagline plus additional hidden text to describe further information about the company. The comment probably was misleading

    In general a paragraph consists of several sentences that are grouped together.

    In my case I do meet the criteria.

  3. #53
    SitePοint Troll disgracian's Avatar
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    So your preferred method is for the logo's alt text to be displayed as default text when images and styles are disabled? That just doesn't seem right to me.

    Cheers,
    D.

  4. #54
    SitePoint Addict rochow's Avatar
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    plus additional hidden text to describe further information about the company
    Gee, not sure how much SE's would like that, hidden text is a no-no

    So your preferred method is for the logo's alt text to be displayed as default text when images and styles are disabled? That just doesn't seem right to me.
    Hmm what matters more, ranking in SE's and getting visitors and money, or having a big heading for 0.005&#37; of people browsing without styles and images (keeping in mind 90% of sites they visit will look like sh*t anyway, so it's not like yours is an exception) ...

  5. #55
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    @disgracian

    What I am conveying is 'graphic' headers should not be used, and the reasons I posted could be a couple out of the bunch.

    I should not even have to have alt text because I will not use an image ever for a header.

    @rochow

    Are you saying that 'all' hidden text is a no-no?
    I totally disagree with that 'opinion'.

  6. #56
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  7. #57
    SitePοint Troll disgracian's Avatar
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    Cooper, can you clarify what you mean by "headers"? You seem to be jumping all over the place and it's confusing me. Let's go back to your example:
    Code:
    <div id="branding">
    	<img src="" alt="" width="" height="" /><!-- Branding logo -->
    	<p>......</p><!-- Tagline + hidden information --><!-- EDITED TO NOT CONFUSE ANYONE -->
    </div>	
    
    <div id="content">
    	<h1>About</h1>
    	.......
    </div>
    The alt text for the branding logo (and essentially the name of the site) is not marked up in any way even though it's at the top of the page. Using your methodology, turning off styles and images would result in site name and tagline being visually equivalent. That is what I was referring to when I said it didn't seem right to me. That isn't to say it should necessarily be a h1 (so please don't counter that) but it's surely semantically different to and more important than body text.

    Cheers,
    D.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Addict rochow's Avatar
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    Are you saying that 'all' hidden text is a no-no?
    No - but stuffing in text is. That's like having a <h1> hidden full of keywords, which is different to hiding something that is actually of use to those with styles disabled.

  9. #59
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by disgracian View Post
    Cooper, can you clarify what you mean by "headers"? You seem to be jumping all over the place and it's confusing me. Let's go back to your example:
    Code:
    <div id="branding">
    	<img src="" alt="" width="" height="" /><!-- Branding logo -->
    	<p>......</p><!-- Tagline + hidden information --><!-- EDITED TO NOT CONFUSE ANYONE -->
    </div>	
    
    <div id="content">
    	<h1>About</h1>
    	.......
    </div>
    The alt text for the branding logo (and essentially the name of the site) is not marked up in any way even though it's at the top of the page. Using your methodology, turning off styles and images would result in site name and tagline being visually equivalent. That is what I was referring to when I said it didn't seem right to me. That isn't to say it should necessarily be a h1 (so please don't counter that) but it's surely semantically different to and more important than body text.

    Cheers,
    D.
    Okay, I see where you are getting at. I was arguing something totally different

    I am working on a project and reading through this at the same time. Sorry for the misconception.

    My answer to you is:
    1. There are downfalls to every method.
    2. Better it be the logo than the h1.

    As Rochow would say "If someone goes to a webpage, I think they know what the name of it is".

    Does this clear things up?

  10. #60
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochow View Post
    No - but stuffing in text is. That's like having a <h1> hidden full of keywords, which is different to hiding something that is actually of use to those with styles disabled.
    This is a paragraph, not a h1 full of hidden keywords. I do see what you are saying.

    Although, I do not see google seeing this as SPAM in my case, I could definitely have the 'text' visible to the viewer, in which I may.

  11. #61
    SitePoint Addict rochow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper.semantics View Post
    This is a paragraph, not a h1 full of hidden keywords. I do see what you are saying.

    Although, I do not see google seeing this as SPAM in my case, I could definitely have the 'text' visible to the viewer, in which I may.
    It depends on what the hidden text is. As soon as anyone says hidden, they usually mean "We're the best baseball bat makers in America, we make quality American baseball bats" or similar, which only serves 1, blackhat purpose

    As Rochow would say "If someone goes to a webpage, I think they know what the name of it is".
    That predictable huh

  12. #62
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    It depends on what the hidden text is. As soon as anyone says hidden, they usually mean "We're the best baseball bat makers in America, we make quality American baseball bats" or similar, which only serves 1, blackhat purpose
    Yeah, a case such as that is no good.

  13. #63
    SitePοint Troll disgracian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooper.semantics View Post
    1. There are downfalls to every method.
    2. Better it be the logo than the h1.
    Good point.

    Cheers,
    D.


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