Is PHP going a bit over the top?

[CoderMaya]

max7, you might as well complain that PHP sucks because it was coded by gorillas, since you won't stop making stuff up here.

[disgracian]

You do get the impression that he's just grabbing a handful of arguments he's read on other forums and then just throwing them at the screen and seeing what sticks.

Cheers,
D.

[max7]

I am not that big php hater. I was surprised to see so many php lover. I hope someone will agree that python and ruby were designed by more clever guys then php.

PHP is full so many changes. I started to program in PHP3 then PHP4 then PHP5.
PHP 6 would be more different with unicode support and all these bad features removed.

What does that mean? I think it means that PHP team is fixing bad design concepts.

What will PHP6 look like? PHP6 will have more and more from Java.

Perl6 will compile to byte code. May be PHP7 will compile in byte code as well.

Actually products like zend and ioncube save php's binary tree as compiled.
Same is done by optimisator. xcode and apc

What we will get at the end of PHP evolution?

Do we need second Java or we need simple scripting language for simple scripts?

I think php is popular for it simplicity and it must stay simple. But it had to became secure years ago instead of trying to beat java.

[logic_earth]

max7, this is the PHP section of SitePoint the majority of us that have commented in on this thread are well versed in PHP, we know all the bumps and dips. Most of us also have other languages under our belts, we know what we are talking about. However, you on the other hand don't seem to have a clue. Are you here just to make yourself look like a fool?

Btw PHP already compiles to bytecode, what you think APC does? It cache the bytecode output of PHP.

[max7]

Yes. I agree apc and xcode save php code in binary format. Most scripting languages convert scripts to bynary tree and then interpret this tree.

I predict that PHP7 compile to byte code.

In fact someone from php team wrote in first posts about php6 that it will compile to .NET byte code.

[logic_earth]

PHP already compiles to bytecode. It has done so as far back as PHP 3 at the most.

[ionix5891]

@max7 i have 2 sites running on same server cluster

combined they get 500,000 unique visitors / 2 million page views according to google analytics per day


both sites are hand coded by me and took years to grow and still growing

guess what they are coded and run on?
guess how many servers it takes?
guess how many times i got hacked?

i take security and efficiency as top concerns and daily measure and optimise the performance

oh and i come from a comp sci with C and Java background so i had a great laugh reading your posts, you trully made a fool of yourself

[ionix5891]

now to answer the thread starter and get back on topic


no i dont think php is going over the top, in fact i think its moving too slow

one is not forced to use them new features, you can code away in the old procedural style with no issues, the only thing that was forced was the php4 retirement (on which i started poll here before) and that took to long imho


personally i cant wait for php5.3 to come out, cant wait to organise my library with namespaces, cant wait to drop latest zend framework phar file and get on with the interesting bits
and then theres unicode, this really needs sorting fast, the sites mentioned above are localized and translated into a pile of languages but god damn it it was difficult to do

i also enviously look at .net developers, i used to do .net as well and some aspects make developers lives very easy, hell i even borrowed some of the concepts in my homebrew framework, and the tools! damnit eclipse just doesnt compare to visual studio, sigh


so to sum it up i think php has long way to go, and i sure hope it gets there faster otherwise developers at the top might move to greener pastures

anyways sorry for ranting but php does need more improvement and i sure hope they dont stop, i eagerly watch all the developments and provide feedback and bugfixes in projects such as zend framework

[Jake Arkinstall]

I started to program in PHP3 then PHP4 then PHP5.

If you really are 13, then PHP4 came out when you were 5. I somehow doubt you started with PHP3.

I hope someone will agree that python and ruby were designed by more clever guys then php.

I doubt it. PHP was designed to do exactly what it does - so where they. Theres no level of intellegence involved.

Besides, Look at sitepoint. It's probably the biggest professional (that rules out DP) website development community in the world. What's it written in?

I'll give you a hint - look at the file extention.

[CoderMaya]

Oh Jake, you obviously misunderstood him. Seeing how weird this guy is, he probably downloaded PHP3, then PHP4 and then PHP5. I wouldn't be surprised if that whole process took one day, which would show his level of understanding PHP.

[max7]

I have not said that I am 13. I said "What you say if I say I am 13"
Most of you said that you believe I am 13.

BTW PHP 3 was widely used after PHP4 release for long time.
Most hosting company was not updating software for very long time.
Servers was not able to update automatically and for free.

I remember RedHat 7.3 was asking to subscribe to get access to automatic updates. Subscription cost was $1500 or $2400 a year.

[Jake Arkinstall]

PHP is free and opensource.

In fact, it wouldn't be difficult to make PHP auto-update. They just choose not to just incase an unexpected security flaw is in a minor release. Whilst it would get updated quickly, some servers can't take the risk. That's why it's better done manually.

Most of you said that you believe I am 13.

You make it sound like the outcome shows that we're the fool...

[webaddictz]

Seriously, ignore the trolling, there is no use in responding to that and it only gets this topic even further offtopic.

[Czaries]

@max7

I don't think you'll get any arguments from anyone that PHP could have been designed better from the start. Of course it could have, especially with the many function naming schemes there seem to be. But anyone can look back on almost anything and say that it could have been better than it is today.

I love and have great respect for full object-oriented languages like Python and Ruby, as I'm sure many others here do. The point is (and what people here are trying to tell you) is that PHP works great, it's easy, and it's fast. And PHP is everywhere, on almost every single web hosting server in the world - even the Fortune 500 guys.

The reason everyone is jumping down your throat is not because they just simply can't stand to see PHP being bashed; It's that your claims are ridiculous and completely unfounded. You provide no proof of any of your claims, and commit countless logical fallacies in your arguments, most namely Post Hoc. You come to the conclusion that PHP itself is insecure because there are many applications made with PHP that are insecure. But using PHP does not mean your application will automatically be insecure. You are confusing cause and effect. Just because grass is green does not mean everything that's green is grass.

I am sure that if you had provided compelling evidence that PHP itself was insecure and was causing the applications built with PHP to be insecure from the start, the tone of this discussion would be very different.

[spikeZ]

right, this has gone on far too long - thread closed and apologies to blueyon for the way this thread went.

Any complaints - PM me