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  1. #51
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    While I think that formula has merit Datura, I don't think it's always the case. NZ is a free country - very free. Our crime rate is also very low.

    People have the right to own firearms here (with a license) but very few people do. In fact, the only people I know of that have guns are farmers. The fact that crime is so low means that people don't feel the need to protect themselves.
    Your country is very small (I think it is a great country) and has not had this kind of pioneer mentality as is the case here in the US or it was on a much smaller scale. In the US the history of the population of freeing themselves from monarchy and oppressive government has led to this spirit of defensive stance. The discovery of a large continent and exploration thereof brought also the necessity for the pioneers to defend themselves against each other. The rift between ethnic groups is real and that accounts for much of the violence today. Drugs are illegal, that in turn brings violence.

    It is interesting to me to listen to my mother complain about the violence and criminal behavior that has really blossomed in Germany now. She keeps saying: "This would never have happened under Hitler." And it is true, crimes were minimal in that time, but the people had no freedom to speak their mind, to think, they were only allowed to follow and say yes and become cannon fodder. That is what I mean by saying that a police state is safe, as long as you say yes to what the government deems right. There is no freedom for the citizen, only duty to the leadership.

    You are right, your country seems to be a rather free and minimal crime country. Your population is small and the large cities are rather small in comparison, let us say the US, where you have groups that border in their behavior on anarchy. That again is only possible because of the freedom we have here.

    I just mean to say that in most cases freedom has on its coattails more violence than non freedom.
    Ulrike
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  2. #52
    I hate Spammers mobyme's Avatar
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    The murder rate in Greece is one of the lowest in the world, probably because they intend to get round to it tomorrow. Superb country
    There are three kinds of men:
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    The few who learn by observation.
    The rest of us have to pee on the electric fence.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura
    You are right, your country seems to be a rather free and minimal crime country. Your population is small and the large cities are rather small in comparison, let us say the US
    I don't think it's correct to completely attribute the amount of crime to population size. For example, have a look at this... Total Crimes per Capita in 2005 (?)

    New Zealand is second from the top, with a population of 4,268,000.

    Dominica, a Caribbean island, is first. Population 71,727.

    So here we have a smaller population displaying a slightly higher incidence of crime than a much larger one.


    Of course, there's crime and there's crime.

    New Zealand is still very, very safe if you look at the chart of murders per capita.

    Colombia and South Africa are on top. Both with populations much larger than that of New Zealand.

    BUT... look at where Jamaica is. Jamaica, with a population half the size of New Zealand's, is third.

    So that again goes against the idea that population size exclusively determines the amount of crime.


    I just mean to say that in most cases freedom has on its coattails more violence than non freedom.
    That may be part it. But I also think that the personalities of the average citizen of a country matters too.

    For instance, the average Jamaican (or Trini) is short-tempered. The average Canadian is... amm... "laid-back". The average Japanese is industrious. The average Indian is superstitious. And perhaps these factors are part of what come into play.

    And there's education as well. The average New Zealandian is more educated than the average Jamaican. Here's another chart to support that one.


    Not to take anything away from the idea of freedom. That is certainly a factor too. But there're all just parts of the equation.




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  4. #54
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    Have you been to Saudi Arabia?

    I think it is the safest country all over the world.

  5. #55
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    I don't think it's correct to completely attribute the amount of crime to population size. For example, have a look at this... Total Crimes per Capita in 2005 (?)


    That absolutely stuns me. I would be interested to know what is considered a crime and how those statistics are recorded. I suspect that a lot of it has to do with record keeping.

    I have been to many of the countries on that list and can guarantee that they are not safer than NZ! For example, is every case of pickpocketing that occurs in the markets in HongKong considered and recorded as a crime? Is the assault of every prosititute that occurs in Thailand recorded as a crime? In both cases I suspect not, while I think you'll find that just about every case of petty theft (right down to shoplifting) is reported and recorded here.

    Surely a lot of this has to do with how well a country is policed and how honest they are with their statistics.

  6. #56
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    It's hard to tell which country is safe... I would go with New Zealand

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK
    Surely a lot of this has to do with how well a country is policed and how honest they are with their statistics.
    Okay, I'll give you that.

    I'm stunned by the fact that we're not on that list.




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  8. #58
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    Random question... is New Zealand and Australia independent ?

    I noticed y'all still have the Union Jack on your flags.




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  9. #59
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    I don't think it's correct to completely attribute the amount of crime to population size. For example, have a look at this... Total Crimes per Capita in 2005 (?)

    So that again goes against the idea that population size exclusively determines the amount of crime.
    I always question statistics like this. What is considered crime in one part of the world is not considered a crime in another. You have countries like Holland where drugs are legalized as well as prostitution. Then you have a country like the US where both of those things are considered crimes, how does one compare crime rates? And as Sarah mentioned also, how accurate are the records?

    I did not imply that size alone is a factor, but that it is a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    That may be part it. But I also think that the personalities of the average citizen of a country matters too.

    For instance, the average Jamaican (or Trini) is short-tempered. The average Canadian is... amm... "laid-back". The average Japanese is industrious. The average Indian is superstitious. And perhaps these factors are part of what come into play.

    And there's education as well. The average New Zealandian is more educated than the average Jamaican. Here's another chart to support that one.

    Not to take anything away from the idea of freedom. That is certainly a factor too. But there're all just parts of the equation.

    It is true that temperament and education, traditions and beliefs have a lot of influence on the behavior of people. Those are also factors in how free a country is, because those ideas that people hold will influence whom they choose as their leaders and what kind of government they choose to live with/under.

    In a dictatorship, either left or right, you will find very little crime. In a socialist/communist system you will find little crime because of the tight controls that are in place and the mindset of the population that they must surrender their person to the common good and dissolve into the greater mass. Only the guys in power will commit the crimes, or only the citizens that do not adhere to the bad laws created by the guys in power of such regimes.

    That brings me back to freedom in a country where crime will flourish, unless there is a population where all people are rational. True freedom is not found anywhere, so far that has not existed.
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  10. #60
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    i think singapore.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datura
    I did not imply that size alone is a factor, but that it is a factor.
    I see. My mistake.

    Those are also factors in how free a country is, because those ideas that people hold will influence whom they choose as their leaders and what kind of government they choose to live with/under.
    Interesting.

    The way I was looking at it was... okay, suppose I'm from a country where belief in the supernatural is common.

    I may actually think twice about scaling the wall and stealing my neighbour's zaboca because I'm afraid of the spirits seeking vengence on his behalf.


    unless there is a population where all people are rational.
    Sadly, that also is theorhetical and never existed.

    We've had this discussion before... Some people just seem to be born to surrender their responsibility of thinking onto others.




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  12. #62
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    I

    The way I was looking at it was... okay, suppose I'm from a country where belief in the supernatural is common.

    I may actually think twice about scaling the wall and stealing my neighbour's zaboca because I'm afraid of the spirits seeking vengence on his behalf.
    True enough. A person who has a belief like that is then a prisoner of his own mind and behaves a certain way out of fear (a method all mystics use). The fear of the consequences becomes a deterrent just like the fear of punishment of some sorts will where this belief does not come into play but laws are the cause of this fear. Fear often guides people in their behavior because they substitute fear for actual morals. As soon as the fear is removed, they act within a vacuum not knowing right from wrong.
    Ulrike
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  13. #63
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    i may actually think twice about scaling the wall and stealing my neighbour's zaboca because i'm afraid of the thirty-ought-six he's got, and is not afraid to use
    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
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  14. #64
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS Geek View Post
    What is the safest country in the world today?

    The Rebublic of Texas...where you can carry guns and SHOOT criminals!
    .

  15. #65
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Yeah, what does a zaboca look like? Is it worth stealing and face the thirty-ought-six?
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun(OfTheDead) View Post
    Random question... is New Zealand and Australia independent ?

    I noticed y'all still have the Union Jack on your flags.
    They are both independant nations (with governments and prime ministers) but are both still part of the Commonwealth (hence the Union Jack).

    We have been talking about changing our flag and anthem for years but of course with that comes the expected debating and fighting that tends to make a simple job complicated...

    I think a black flag with a silver fern on it would make the most sense for us.

  17. #67
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    T

    I think a black flag with a silver fern on it would make the most sense for us.
    That does sound great. I love that
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  18. #68
    SitePoint Addict chestertondevelopment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobyme View Post
    Don't buy into all that garbage; the media are reporting on a country of 60+ million people. You have more chance of being struck by lightning. The UK is a very safe country in the scheme of things although some people will not be happy until it's turned into a police state.
    I'm definitely not one to buy into all the 'knife culture' stuff. If you look at it, a lot of it is inter-gang violence and the majority is in the suburbs of London, but I don't feel as safe on the streets anymore as I used to. For example, my girlfriend and I were attacked and beaten up outside of a pub in January by 5+ blokes, 2 got cautioned with 'common assault' and the rest got away with it. I think the points that have been made about authoritarian states is true, if these guys had got a month in jail for it or at least gone to court, then they might have thought twice about it. I'd be willing to sacrifice a bit of privacy for real safety on the streets. Note the emphasis on 'real', ID cards and the big brother state are not the answer, locking people up for a crime that deserves it and proper parenting would cure half these problems.

  19. #69
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestertondevelopment View Post
    my girlfriend and I were attacked and beaten up outside of a pub in January by 5+ blokes, 2 got cautioned with 'common assault' and the rest got away with it.
    If you move to Texas, you can carry a pistol and shoot them as they start the attack and kill 'em!

    That's why criminals here think twice about attacking people because many are packin heat.
    .

  20. #70
    I meant that to happen silver trophybronze trophy Raffles's Avatar
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    Question Offensive muslim stuff - Rockerz again...

    But don't the criminals "pack heat" as well?

    I think the black flag with silver fern would look pretty cool. Quite unorthodox too. Do you reckon the Maori population would be OK with that?

  21. #71
    Extremists Beware! Rockrz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
    But don't the criminals "pack heat" as well?
    Well that is the way to look at it...

    The world is a dangerous place sometimes, so we should all lay down and let evil men walk all over us! Best way to do that is to NEVER fight evil, and NEVER fight any wars to put down evil.

    I'd rather die and go on to Heaven than to live like that.

    So, if I fight back and win...I'm a hero!
    If I fight back and get killed, I go to Heaven!!!

    Actually, the second scenerio would be my first choice, but the first one isn't bad either.
    .

  22. #72
    SitePoint Member doctoromar83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS Geek View Post
    - knife attack (teenagers)
    - burglary
    - shooting
    - terrorism
    ..... etc.

    What do you think?
    I think you describe USA
    The safiest place is Egypt
    especially Aswan

  23. #73
    I meant that to happen silver trophybronze trophy Raffles's Avatar
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    But if you don't believe in Heaven or Hell then there's no point either way!

    NEVER fight any wars to put down evil
    Not sure about that one... it could get horribly political! Some wars are not yours to fight.

    But if you personally get attacked, then I couldn't agree with you more that, if you have the courage and confidence in your fighting ability, by all means stand your ground. That said, the problem in this country is that if you defend yourself or retaliate you can quite possibly get done for gross bodily harm or something like that, if you "overreact". That's one reason, I think, why a lot of people turn a blind eye or at least just call for help rather than "get involved" when other people are getting attacked. Obviously in the latter case there's also the fear of getting hurt, particularly what with the fear-mongering the media encourage, but I do think there's also a "fear of the legal system" component.

    The safiest place is Egypt
    If you're male, perhaps.

  24. #74
    SitePoint Member doctoromar83's Avatar
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    If you're male, perhaps.[/QUOTE]

    what do you mean?

  25. #75
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    I have removed a whole lot of posts from this thread due to their religious content and insulting nature.

    This is a good thread and I don't want to close it so please think before you post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
    I think the black flag with silver fern would look pretty cool. Quite unorthodox too. Do you reckon the Maori population would be OK with that?
    There are people with extreme views in both the Maori and Pakeha populations, but in general we all see ourselves as kiwis and relate to both the colour and the fern.


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