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Thread: Is Zope kaput?

  1. #1
    Yugo full of anvils bronze trophy hillsy's Avatar
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    Is Zope kaput?

    I've just been back looking at zope.org for the first time in a couple of months, and they stll have mostly the same content that they had up there in February. Nothing exciting in the way of new products, except for one that allows you to run JSPs inside Zope (because it's faster, apparently...) None of the super-rapid development we used to see in 2000/2001. No sign of Zope 3.0

    What does everyone think? Are these symptoms of the beginning of the end for Zope?

    Yes, I'm trolling a bit, but it'd be interesting to know what you think
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    I'm NOT an Addict ! TheRock's Avatar
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    Maybe they are waiting for you to lead their dev team....

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    Yugo full of anvils bronze trophy hillsy's Avatar
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    hehe - I'm too busy doing .NET strategy for Microsoft at the moment....

    Maybe next week after my conference with Larry Ellison
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    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    It looks to me like Zope has never been in a stronger position. Content Management is BIG business now, and Zope provides by far the most comprehensive open soruce CMS solution. More importantly, big companies are finally coming round to the open source way of thinking and believing that they can get a good product for free. I used to work at a company that ran Mediasurface - a 100,000+ CMS - and I can safely say that Zope runs rings about it on pretty much every criteria you care to mention.

    For signs of Zope activity get on some mailing lists, check out newsgroups and see what the real Zope community are up to - the Zope.org front page probably isn't the best barometer of what's going on (I know php.net's front page doesn't give any indication of the state of PHP development).

  5. #5
    I'm a college yuppie now! sbdi's Avatar
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    I downloaded Zope a while ago but it wont work properly with my PWS. Do I just need Zope or do you need Python to run it? I'm just assuming Python because I saw somewhere that is what you use with it
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  6. #6
    Yugo full of anvils bronze trophy hillsy's Avatar
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    You just need Zope actually - it comes with its own webserver. By default it runs on port 8080 I think...

    skunk - I agree that CMS is big business right now (heck, it's a big part of what I do). I just don't see Zope really trying to grab a bit of the pie - which is a shame because it's a very powerful CMS (some issues aside) as you point out.

    I'm not talking so much about the developer community, now that I think about it. Zope development was always quite active when I was on the mailing lists. I haven't seen so much activity recently, but maybe I've been looking in the wrong places

    What continues to concern me with Zope is its commercial uptake though. Linux has Red Hat. OpenOffice has Sun. FreeBSD has a great reference site in the form of Yahoo! Zope Corporation (formerly Digital Creations) seems to be making an effort to "corporatise" their product but from what I've seen the efforts are pretty marginal. Where are the technical whitepapers? Where are the big corporate case studies? Why do they leave all the decent documentation to third parties? And finally - but most importantly - how do you actually build something in Zope?

    I guess what I'm driving at is that Content Management is a grey area. People want to know best practices. They want to know how the system will work for them. They want the assurance of tons of other people having implemented the same system - successfully (not just three-year old Navy case studies). They don't just want to know that it's cool, open source, OO etc.

    I don't really see that happening with Zope yet, so was wondering if it might be losing some steam as a result. I also suspect that 3-tier open source apps (e.g. LAMP) are stealing a lot of its market share. Hands up who knows PHP? OK - hands up who knows DTML? Thought so.

    Interesting discussion, anyway
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    Grumpy Mole Man Skunk's Avatar
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    <sticks hand up> I know DTML The basics anyway... but that's beside the point.

    You make some very good points, and I'm inclinde to agree with you that Zope are not doing enough to ensure wider acceptance in the commercial world. Zope documentation has always been a problem, although the situation does seem to be improving now with several Zope books on the market. Also the fact that the product is relatively mature should allow the development community to spend more time on documentating what's there (there's no point in writing extensive documentation if the product is changing too fast to keep up).

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    A little late to comment on this post..but here's my two cents...

    First, it seems that zope is getting better and better especially with the use of zope page templates now.. I haven't used the cmf, but in zope 3 this supposed to be fully integrated and play and even larger/easier role towards development..

    Personally, I just started to develop in zope and find it very rewarding to learn and in time for development..


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