SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Lahore, Pakistan
    Posts
    567
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Does it really help?

    I was thinking that when we discuss political issues either in a face-to-face discussion or in a forum like this one, we are never able to reach a conclusion. Nobody taking part in a political discussion ever make the mistake of acknowledging what the other person has to say.

    People have so much blind-faith in what they are being "fed" that they never bother to listen to others. I've seen and "read" it so many times that people are negating each other with out any argument(s) and only insisting that the other person is wrong and I am right.
    TinyPlanet.org
    Discuss and Debate World Events, Politics and Religion.
    Interact and Share your Views with People around the Globe.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    4,810
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's an interesting point Umair, but of course you're wrong. I read it in the Sun so I know. Oh, and it was on CNN.
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
    922ee590a26bd62eb9b33cf2877a00df
    Currently delving into Django, GIT & CentOS

  3. #3
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Lancaster, Ca. USA
    Posts
    12,305
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Politics and Religion are the two topics that you will never get opposing sides to agree on many things in. It is a fact of life. These two things make up the moral fiber of every person in the world and your views upon it. To allow those things to become invalidated, is to allow your own self-worth and dignity to become invalidated. For that reason people fight dearly for it.

    What needs to happen as a species is that we need to start looking at the commonalities in our thinking instead of the differences. Only then can we begin to agree on these topics and start to make inroads that would lead to world-wide contentment, prosperity and peace.

    For this people should study history. Not learn 2000 years in a couple semesters in school but really learn history and go back 5,000 - 10,000 years and study our roots and learn about the aspects of civilization. Only with that knowledge can we learn how to proceed into the future. More than 5,000 years ago, the clues are harder to find but they are there. Now if they were available to the common person more readily, we could understand our base is the same that civilization began in the Middle East and India and spread both east and west from there. That today's religions harken back to the old one's in these regions where 5,000 year old temples to Artemis still stand in Turkey and Innana, Kali and Shiva were amongst the first widely worshipped deities whose myths and legends can be found in all modern religions, though often times morphed slightly and attributed to other deities. We would find why the moral tenets of all religions are the same.

    From this we would realize that we are all infidels and every one of us is pariah or outcast and how we are all in need of the same things. Only then can we work to build a perfect world which so many seem to desire but few actually act upon.

    sorry if this went off on a tangent
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  4. #4
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Lahore, Pakistan
    Posts
    567
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    W. Luke, you turned the topic from Politics to Religion.

    I would certainly NOT agree with you regarding most of the points you raised. Religion involves emotions and even more than that.

    But about politics, I think it can be discussed and people can be convinced. But, the same problem ... most people blindly believe in the media. For example, for an average American - truth is what was or has been said on CNN.
    TinyPlanet.org
    Discuss and Debate World Events, Politics and Religion.
    Interact and Share your Views with People around the Globe.

  5. #5
    The Legend Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Gods' Own Country
    Posts
    890
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Umair.ms

    But about politics, I think it can be discussed and people can be convinced.
    Why not Religion?

    But, the same problem ... most people blindly believe in the media. For example, for an average American - truth is what was or has been said on CNN.
    Just like many people in South Asia blindly believe in their religion. For example, even for many educated people, truth is what Priests/Sanyasis/Mullas says or what's written in old books. This is worse than people blindly believing in media.
    Death --the last sleep? No, it is the final awakening.

    TinyPlanet.org
    Discuss and Debate World Events, Politics and Religion

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Beyond yonder
    Posts
    2,384
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just to clarify, CNN actually has a relatively low viewership (I think five million out of over a quarter of a billion); in fact, in my experiences here, more non-Americans link to and talk about CNN content. The market for news in America is actually quite diverse and spans the political spectrums. Granted, though people are more likely to dismiss the statements of people who are argumentative than a press organization.

    Anyway, I'd ask you does it hurt to discuss these things? I'd say no, and I'd venture to say that it's helpful, at least personally. Discussing things here helps all of us sort our own feelings. And while they might not change during the course of a debate, they are at least re-examined. That's pretty good in my book. :-)

    ~~Ian

  7. #7
    ********* obeah makeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    rollin' on dubs
    Posts
    492
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i agree with ian on this one. it is worth it. even though a lot of stuff that people post on these forums seems quite insane to me, such as this gem:

    For example, for an average American - truth is what was or has been said on CNN.
    it is good for me to hear. It is good to hear how other people really percieve issues, especially people outside of my town/city/country/continent. Even though i disagree with a lot of things people say, i still see a lot of common ground among us all. i think of the people i disagree with on these forums as friends, not enemies.

    umair, i would hope that if you ever visited north carolina, usa that you would look me up. if i ever visit lahore, i will look you up and perhaps we could continue our dialog regarding americans and cnn

  8. #8
    Wibblesticks Gryff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Asgard
    Posts
    442
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think discussion does help. Even if we cant reach an earth shattering conclusions, we can strengthen or weaken each others opinions, and people may recieve ideas on how to deal with issues.
    Just my 2 Credits

  9. #9
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Southeast US
    Posts
    167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    umair,

    You have brought up an excellent point. I think we are all influenced by not just the media, but also by our cultural identity, our religion, religious teachers, biases, and our economic status. I don't agree that whether or not we know the truth about a political situation/event is solely dependent on the media. There will always be beliefs, biases in all of us that will filter or distort what we hear resulting in varied interpretations. Then, there is always that argumentative competitive side of us that makes us want to win or convince the other to our way of thinking.

    I don't think the majority of people have "blind faith" in what they are being "fed". An exception may be very closed socities that have severely limited access to information. As a side note, I don't like for people to imply that I am "fed" information. It isn't fed to me. I take it and do with it as I please. I believe or disbelieve it, or question it. I also believe most people, at least those I know, understand that the news they get will always have some amount of bias either in the way it is presented or the importance it is given. Some of it is blatant lies. At some point in time, I do believe the truth does usually emerge.

    toh, Will you quit picking on CNN. (LOL) If you don't, I'm going to tell you what my husband's impression is of BBC TV news. Once again, it's influenced by our culture.

    ian, you are right about CNN. You can only get CNN TV if you have cable. Many, like me can't get it where they live. I get CNN news on the internet.

    Conclusions? We are imperfect humans. We don't have all the answers. Would,nt it be interesting to see just how much each of us would be willing to compromise our beliefs to come up with a solution to the turmoil in the Middle East? Yes, I do believe there must be compromise on all sides to arrive at a workable solution.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard Ian Glass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Beyond yonder
    Posts
    2,384
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by makeda
    umair, i would hope that if you ever visited north carolina, usa that you would look me up. if i ever visit lahore, i will look you up and perhaps we could continue our dialog regarding americans and cnn
    You know, I have found it so interesting at the number of North Carolinians that regularly participate in these debates. You, me and another member that frequently post in the WE forum all live somewhere in this state and I know of other posters with strong ties to NC! Nifty! :-)

    Umair, we'll rent a reception hall for you if you come here. :-D

    ~~Ian

  11. #11
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey NC - I've been there, Boone, Wilkesboro, Charlotte all that NASCAR - love it (except for the rednecks)...
    Snowboarded Sugar and Appalachian (French/Swiss place)

    You guys have one of the most amazing churches I have ever been to - Morning Star - totally kicks A...

    I used to date a girl who lived there see (almost married her but she wasn't right for me)

  12. #12
    ********* obeah makeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    rollin' on dubs
    Posts
    492
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    z7...i knew there was some common ground between us somewhere!! if you find yourself in charlotte again, send me a PM and i'll meet up with you, buy you a pint and explain the benefits of democracy.

    P.S. Ian, offer holds for you, too

  13. #13
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Okay I'll see you if I ever go back to visit Morning Star in Charlotte...

    Just because I bash your government/military doesn't mean I don't like you as people (except for the rednecks - of course!)...

  14. #14
    Just Blow It bronze trophy
    DaveMaxwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Posts
    7,286
    Mentioned
    121 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Umair.ms
    W. Luke, you turned the topic from Politics to Religion.
    Why not? Most wars over time can be broken down to differences in opinions over one of these two topics. I know, we'll ban all talks about these subjects and have instantaneous world peace!!
    Dave Maxwell - Manage Your Site Team Leader
    My favorite YouTube Video! | Star Wars, Dr Suess Style
    Learn how to be ready for The Forums' Move to Discourse

  15. #15
    The Legend Indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Gods' Own Country
    Posts
    890
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Talking

    Anyway, now the topic is North Carolina. Sorry, Umair!
    Death --the last sleep? No, it is the final awakening.

    TinyPlanet.org
    Discuss and Debate World Events, Politics and Religion

  16. #16
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Lahore, Pakistan
    Posts
    567
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Makeda, in my post there are few more gems for you.

    Indian, I surely agree with you. Education doesnot necessarily mean that you will get the "sense" of religion. Talking about "blind faith" in Mulas, I've seen how people fled to Afghanistan to participate in the "war against infidels". Turning a totally political issue into a religious issue is the art which is well-known by South-Asian "religious" leaders.

    Yes, we CAN talk about religion. I have courage to face religious issues, as long as they are presented with arguments, VALID arguments!

    Take a look at some of these stupid false propaganda sites, http://www.thequran.com - http://www.thespiritofislam.com - Totally argument-less discussion. Totally stupid arguments.

    Sorry guys, from CNN I didn't specifically meant CNN! I meant media - American media. Personally, I prefer BBC over CNN. And preferrably, I try to get information from the people who have experienced it themselves.

    It seems so inappropriate that people here are talking about Afghanistan like they have been been there. Media sources, specially commercial media sources broadcast only what people WANT to listen!

    allie, I think you have got a point. Everybody has some biases or the other. We people tend to ignore them intentionally or unintentially and like to force our opinion on others! If Bush says Afghanistanis are terrorists, Musharraf has to agree!

    And guys thanks for inviting me (and about that reception hall thing). But, is there any guarantee that I come over to USA and I am not arrested being declared as a terrorist? j/k
    TinyPlanet.org
    Discuss and Debate World Events, Politics and Religion.
    Interact and Share your Views with People around the Globe.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Evangelist Umair.ms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Lahore, Pakistan
    Posts
    567
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Indian
    Anyway, now the topic is North Carolina. Sorry, Umair!
    OOOoooooOOOOppppssSSSssssssss!!!
    TinyPlanet.org
    Discuss and Debate World Events, Politics and Religion.
    Interact and Share your Views with People around the Globe.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Southeast US
    Posts
    167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you all come to NC, I will make y'all (that's southern for you all) a real southern meal; crispy fried chicken, home made biscuits, gravy, fresh corn, squash, butter beans, and lemon meringue pie.

    Hooray for the North Carolinians!

  19. #19
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Southeast US
    Posts
    167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    umair,

    If you come to the USA, you will likely be treated the same as I was when I flew to and from New York. I waited in line 30 minutes to check my bags in. My bags were thouroughly searched while they held my ticket. Then I proceeded through another security check point where my tickets were checked again and I once again was asked for my drivers licence ID. Then my carry on baggage was run through the scanners and I walked through a metal detector scanner. After that, they used a hand-held scanner to scan me. I had to stand with arms out and legs spread apart. On the return trip, the female security person even asked if she could feel under my arm to detect the metal wire in my bra. I had to remove my shoes and they confiscated my finger nail polish remover because it was flammable. No big loss.

    I was a bit worried because I was bringing back 4 bottles of olive oil that I like to buy when in New York. I told them I had it and what it was before they scanned my carry on bag. They said it was okay because it was still sealed. Boy, would I have hated to lose $50.00 worth of olive oil. I think I could have paid to have it shipped.

    Know what? I was darn pleased that I was searched in this manner. It made me feel better about flying. All the security personnel were friendly and professional. I did not resent it one bit.

    Would it have been different had I looked Middle Eastern instead of American? I don't know. My guess is that in all airports everywhere some profiling is bound to be taking place that results in more indepth security checking. They would have to have a pretty good reason to detain you such as suspicious ID or passports. Flying without luggage is also an automatic red flag I'm also told.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey - last two times I flew out of Charlotte there was a soldier dude with a big phat M16 - not sure I felt 'reassured' though...
    My bag was packed full of electronics gear and they they didn't even search it they just did this explosives swab-test on it - nifty (I managed to avoid random searches both times )...
    Oh and they made me take my shoes off?! (I think they were testing them for potential biological weapons use - phewy! )

    Hey - it makes you wonder how 'free' you are in the 'land of the free' - when I fly into GB I just wave my passport, and get an affirming nod of approval whilst all the other suckers have to queue for hours on end - I like to call GB 'The Home of the Free' (now don't y'all be gettin a bee in yer bonnet on that one)

    Back to NC...
    Biscuits and Gravy - hmmm...
    ROOT BEER!!! - OH I MISS ROOT BEER (dribble) SOME ONE SEND ME SOME A&W!!!!!

    BTW - The most lax security I have ever come accross was at Copenhagen Airport - on the way in there wasn't even anybody on duty to look at our passports, let alone stamp them!?!!!

  21. #21
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Arlington, Texas
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by Umair.ms
    W. Luke, you turned the topic from Politics to Religion.

    I would certainly NOT agree with you regarding most of the points you raised. Religion involves emotions and even more than that.

    But about politics, I think it can be discussed and people can be convinced. But, the same problem ... most people blindly believe in the media. For example, for an average American - truth is what was or has been said on CNN.
    And you are a qualified expert on what comprises the average American? Hell I live here and would be hard pressed to define the average American.
    Last edited by Hellbent; May 13, 2002 at 16:28.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •