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  1. #51
    SitePoint Wizard jimbo_dk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDeViL View Post
    Mentioning my name specifically on the tribune has now officially left a bad taste on ALL your readers who did not actually read my post...
    It left a bad taste in me about SP's editorial abilities. Such a post should never have been approved to go into a community newsletter in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaDeViL View Post
    So Brendon, I still respect you and your opinions, but I would like some kind of mention on the next tribune that will help me get out of this bad light you have so easily put me in for all those users who did not read these posts.

    Everyone else, is this too much to ask, or what is an acceptable way to get this embarrassing situation fixed?
    An apology would have been nice, but that doesn't seem likely....
    Winners Respond. Losers React.
    Singapore Web Designer

  2. #52
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDeViL View Post
    . . .
    Mentioning my name specifically on the tribune has now officially left a bad taste on ALL your readers who did not actually read my post...
    . . .
    Not ALL readers.

    I didn't have an opinion one way or the other until after I read the entire thread.

    Glad you got it sorted.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  3. #53
    SitePoint Enthusiast Brendon S's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input

    DaDeViL, I'm not too sure why you're upset.
    You're on a public forum and got some feedback you didn't like. No biggie there.
    I wasn't the only one who articulated the same bit of feedback.

    Do I stand by it? Sure.
    Do I regret that you've taken offense to it? Yes. Could have not been quite so assertive but then maybe you (or others) wouldn't have got the importance of what I was trying to say.

    All the best.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon S View Post
    Thanks for the input

    DaDeViL, I'm not too sure why you're upset.
    You're on a public forum and got some feedback you didn't like. No biggie there.
    I wasn't the only one who articulated the same bit of feedback.
    Absolutely... I don't believe we've run across each others paths in the forums DaDeViL so I'm not passing judgment and I'm glad you got it sorted with Company A, etc... but why the anger? I can understand some embarrassment about the whole ordeal but anger?

    Brendon owes you, me or anyone else nothing.... In his role with the Tribune he's a journalist who saw something public that fired him up. It's fair game for him or anyone to report on it. It could have ended up on Digg for instance which could have been interesting.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  5. #55
    SitePoint Enthusiast DaDeViL's Avatar
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    You're on a public forum and got some feedback you didn't like. No biggie there.
    I wasn't the only one who articulated the same bit of feedback.
    Brendon, Please show (quote) me wherever in my posts, I was 'upset' and didnt like the comments I got. In fact, I accepted all comments and agreed with the opinions in a learning fashion. 'Ok, so I will do this this way and that' etc.

    I would like to know this to not make the same mistake in the future and if I took the advice wrongly on a certain post.

    I do not disagree with your opinion on the matter. If I sounded upset, that wasnt the intention. I am more disappointed than upset.

    Disappointed my alias would be used without my own permission in a negative light on a newsletter that reaches thousands without all the facts in the post!

    When a user makes a post, he/she expects their name to remain in the scope of the thread. It would have been great if you had just said, 'This user makes a grave mistake in this post about ... [link]'. But you used my alias. That is what bothers me, and should bother every single reader of your tribune and every single poster on this web site.

    I saw that you checked out my profile soon as you read this post...what about the countless others that did the same without even glancing at the posts. How am I to now, sell in the sitepoint marketplace, participate in contests without perception of as untrustworthy and a client stealer - when I did no such thing!

    You've said yourself, Business is about perception/trust. This is what I am trying to protect and asking the forum's advice on how best to do it. In my situation, I protected my perception with success and my client trusts me because I informed them of what I was thinking and they were able to help me understand the mistake and go on working...

    I dont expect the forum to RUIN my perception as a business in this type of question answer environment - where we are encouraged to post our issues? So that it may help us and other users too?

    Do others agree with me here?

  6. #56
    SitePoint Enthusiast DaDeViL's Avatar
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    Andrew, I agree with you. I think what Brendon is great for us when he doesnt need to. I have lots of respect for him and all he does and I never showed him any disrespect. But just imagine this happening to you with your www.lunadesign.com url showing!

    how would it impact the perception of your business in this community. How would it impact the valuable advice you give on these forums? Would it not invalidate all of it? Especially when you were given so much public view...

    Imagine if people did a simple google search on lunadesign and these posts came up in the tribune with only the limited information? Wouldnt you be at risk to lose at least one lead?

  7. #57
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Let's try to remain civil, everyone. I'd hate to lock this thread.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDeViL View Post
    Andrew, I agree with you. I think what Brendon is great for us when he doesn't need to. I have lots of respect for him and all he does and I never showed him any disrespect. But just imagine this happening to you with your www.lunadesign.com url showing!

    how would it impact the perception of your business in this community. How would it impact the valuable advice you give on these forums? Would it not invalidate all of it? Especially when you were given so much public view...

    Imagine if people did a simple google search on lunadesign and these posts came up in the tribune with only the limited information? Wouldnt you be at risk to lose at least one lead?
    Ok, I think I see your concern and I empathise but if your URL was part of your sig as it is in mine it's more likely that this thread would show up or many others threads that you or I have contributed to than this particular copy of the Tribune.

    If the info is online somewhere and it has my URL or your URL for that matter, chances are it will get into a search engine index. But, I've been a member here for a while and Sitepoint doesn't show up in the SERPs for Luna Design and certainly not for my keywords so it's likely not something to be overly concerned about. Even less likely for you as you don't have a URL attached to your profile.

    Edit: Actually, they've probably instructed spiders to leave the forums alone in robots.txt so our threads won't be part of a search engine index.

    I don't think you have anything to worry about.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  9. #59
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Actually threads are indexed here - take a look if you don't believe me. A quick check of the source doesn't reveal any rel="nofollow" attributes either. As for robots.txt, the only pages that are blocked are the ones that require special access (ie: you have to be logged in) to view and the forum search.

  10. #60
    SitePoint Enthusiast DaDeViL's Avatar
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    Yes, that is my only concern. Unlike you, I only have a few posts - so its relatively easy to see all my posts at once...
    even though I've been a member since 2003. Very lucky it is not in my sig...

    Thing is, I believe the tribune articles and other newsletters probably have better SEO than individual posts on forums (or should anyway), so they are more likely to show up on google searches. So its a bigger deal for the alias to appear on those than in some random forum post out of thousands.

    But I'm glad there are 400 tribunes out there...

    I just hope this doens't happen to too many other users. Or there should be some kind of newsletter-specific warning telling you it might before you post.

  11. #61
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Funny that you would mention that Dan... Just a minute ago out of interest I put in Lunadesign sitepoint and this thread popped up

    Unlikely that one of my clients would type in those words though and only this thread showed up.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  12. #62
    SitePoint Wizard jimbo_dk's Avatar
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    SP forum posts show up pretty fast in Google. I've seen some show up in a matter of hours.

    http://www.google.com.sg/search?hl=e...G=Search&meta=

    That listing also shows the Tribune post. So if Dadevil decided to use this alias on any other place online, these pages would be associated with his nic.
    Winners Respond. Losers React.
    Singapore Web Designer

  13. #63
    SitePoint Enthusiast DaDeViL's Avatar
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    see see? *points at jimbo's post and sheds tears*

  14. #64
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    Hi,

    I haven't read the tribune article (and won't), but would like to add some comments for the original poster's question:

    I think you shouldn't have even talked to Company X, but I'd like to give you a different view to consider from your own companies perspective. I work in a similar environment, in that I provide CMS and bespoke programming solutions to web design companies.

    Company A is one of your sales channels. Their job is to:
    - combine services into a higher value project that you cannot provide (for you: copywriting, project management, backend coding, SEO, site marketing)
    - sell projects and get them done by you.
    - buffer payments and pay you on your terms
    - handle client communication.

    Your side of the relationship is to protect their sales channel by:
    - refering all request from their clients to your channel partner (company A)
    - deny request from the same end user (company X), but a different sales channel (i.e. your client company B)


    If you don't protect their channel clients, why would they take them to you? And if you blatantly compete with any of their contributions to the sale, why would they take their request to you?

    This is how most of the Value Added Reseller industry works (i.e. all of IT hardware), so its not completely out of this world.

    Hope this helps,

    Jochen
    http://www.automatem.co.nz
    Websites, On-line Software and everything Internet
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  15. #65
    Twitter - @CarlBeckel busy's Avatar
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    DaDevil, I wouldn't worry too much about it. What's that saying, "Even bad press is good press" or something like that? I would say that anyone who cares enough to form an opinion on you would probably come here and read the thread. And I would guess that many would be like me and decide that you're most likely a stand-up guy who just wanted to discuss the issue. I came here from the article and I don't hold it against you. I'm wondering how many people have the same opinion as me that would have been more likely to check out the sites in your sig without passing judgement first.

    But even though I think you didn't get a fair shake in the article, I don't think Brandon is under any obligation to follow up or apologize. I hate to read things that aren't sincere and I'm grateful that he and others around here (I see you kat7 ) have such a passion for good ethics, even if I occasionally disagree on minor points.

    Off Topic:

    I'm gald at least some of you like my avatar The whole point of the flashing was to mimic some of the stuff you would see back in the days that I first got to play with computers. (The early 80s) The colors are all in the original 16 color CGA palette.

    For those who don't like it... don't worry. I've had it for a while so it's about time for a change. (File attached for posterity. Free for all to use however they want.)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #66
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Off Topic:


    What!... They had colours in the 80's?!?

    I had 16 shades of grey with my 8-bit ELF computer. 256 bytes of ram.... mmm, good times.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  17. #67
    Twitter - @CarlBeckel busy's Avatar
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    Off Topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    What!... They had colours in the 80's?!?
    Proof - via William Shatner:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUEI7mm8M7Q

    This was my first computer

  18. #68
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Off Topic:


    ...and this was mine
    Except mine only had one 4k ram board and a homebuilt sound card.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  19. #69
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    Hello all,

    Let me preface this by saying I do not believe in politically correct. I was raised to call a spade a spade. So if you are not up to that concept don't read this.

    Have we fallen into a society with a motto of: "be nice to one another kids ... lie"? I certainly hope not ... at least not totally.

    I got the newsletter with Brendon's article and followed the link before I read the article. My feeling from what I had read paralleled about what Brendon had to say ... but worse. I admit the ethical bent (or lack thereof) of the world is a passion of mine. Unfortunately I see the ethics in society deteriorating at the speed of light. Bad behavior or poor judgment reinforced by others does not make it okay. For that reason I am not afraid to leap on a soap box and scream "hey you might want to take a look at this before you carry on with whatever". From my perspective that is just about what Brendon did.

    I think most of us will admit his article was effective.
    People did take notice. Part of the world will pay attention should they be faced with a call to ethical judgment in the future.

    I make no judgment on what kind of person DaDevil is business wise or other (how would I know other than his projection of his own self image in this format?). He can choose to pay attention to the comments made here or not. What his choice is will not damage me or anyone else here for that matter. The weight of his future is on his own shoulders.

    We probably could all agree that opening a new business and grooming it into success is a slippery slope. When you see someone catapult onto a banana peel by choice ... my action will always be "yoo hoo big guy you might want to rethink this action" (call it the mother instinct if you will).

    Here is my perception of DaDavil and his scenario.
    He set up his case to this board. When it all hit the fan his reaction was BOO HOO ... I am a victim here. Brendon portrayed me in a bad light.
    Really?
    Who created that bad light?
    How about accepting the responsibility of ones own actions?

    DaDavil you have stated all is well between you and Company A now.
    Hopefully you are correct. Consider yourself lucky there are people on this board willing to take the time and offer you a perspective that you may not have bumped into on your own. Plus you have provided a learning experience for others that happen to take a look.

    Hey Busy ... you are right I was insulting ... it was not nice and I do apologize.
    Back atcha though ... it did get your attention didn't it?
    By the way your posts are really good and they do not need the flasher to garner attention. They stand well alone on their own merit ... just my opinion.

  20. #70
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    Hi again,

    I've been following this thread and posted my opinions about DaDeViL situation earlier...now this has moved off that topic to ethics about Brendon S's orgiinal coverage of this post in the newsletter...still a topic about ethics and good business practices, so not really off topic.

    I figure that people reading Brendon's coverage will likely feel he did not just 'spotlight' this thread, but used it as fuel to' juice up' the newsletter, try to make this thread into something more than it really is--misrepresenting it. That will likely leave a sour taste in some peoples mouths and make them gun shy about candidly and confidently posting their own concerns in these forums--for fear of being not singled out, but misrepresented.

    Brendon, you are not just another poster here, you serve in a journalistic capacity and also represent the face of SP in this role. I agree that this role involves trying to get people fired up and engaged in the forums (link bait) and you have surely done this, but watch out for the longterm ramifications to the reputation of SP and your own credibility on this site.

    That's all I have to say.

    Ciao

  21. #71
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    Personally, I've never liked the way Sitepoint 'post' their opinion about a forum thread from within a sitepoint newsletter. It's hardly in the spirit of the forum - IMO, if you have something to say about a forum thread, post it directly in that thread and let the community see it and respond accordingly. Then if you wish, duplicate your thoughts/post in the newsletter.

  22. #72
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Although we're off topic again, I'll chime in here.

    I do appreciate reading about interesting/controversial subjects or forum posts in the newsletter. These are public forums and the newsletter goes out to the same community that posts on the forum.

    I don't figure that people reading Brendon's coverage will likely feel he did not just 'spotlight' this thread, but used it as fuel to' juice up' the newsletter...

    ...AND newsletters are a perfect venue for opinions. Otherwise what else are they good for?

    Now, thanks to the newsletter and the thread I have a better understanding of DaDeViL's situation and although I don't agree with what initially went down, now that it has run its course and been resolved, I count myself as a DaDeViL supporter but.... Anyone who posts ideas or opinions are open to alternate posts and opinions. It seems that some people want to censor the newsletter from reporting on controversial forum subject and that's just wrong.

    My 2 bits.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    ...AND newsletters are a perfect venue for opinions. Otherwise what else are they good for?

    Anyone who posts ideas or opinions are open to alternate posts and opinions. It seems that some people want to censor the newsletter from reporting on controversial forum subject and that's just wrong.
    I agree that the newsletter is a good venue for opinions, and I do not want to censor those opinions...My point was that Brendon is more than just another poster in the forum in his capacity as writer for the newsletter and his opinions will reflect on SP (for better or worse) and on the people whose threads he covers in the newsletter.

    As was already mentioned, he has more authority--in some people's eyes--than just 'another poster'...

    I do stand by my opinion that his coverage of this thread was used to 'juice up' the newsletter--I suspect that is the intention of highlighting certain threads over others in the first place. How that is done, not that it is done, is what I am commenting on.

    But to each their own...

  24. #74
    SitePoint Wizard jimbo_dk's Avatar
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    DaDevil's original question (if you read the first post) was about how long a non-compete agreement had to stay in place.

    What Brendon did with his newsletter post was to make it out to to be DaDevil saying "I can take my client's client, and I don't see anything wrong with that".

    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    ...AND newsletters are a perfect venue for opinions. Otherwise what else are they good for?
    Forums are perfect venues for personal opinions. Newsletters are for news?
    Winners Respond. Losers React.
    Singapore Web Designer

  25. #75
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo_dk View Post
    Forums are perfect venues for personal opinions. Newsletters are for news?
    Both?
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development


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