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  1. #26
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Just to clarify a little. Visual Basic SCript (VBS)is a subset of Visual Basic created for the Internet and other Scripting tasks. Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) is also a subset of Visual Basic. Visual Basic Script is not a subset of Visual Basic. VBS and VBA both fill different programming niches.

    ASP is NOT as subset of Visual Basic. It is a series of objects that enhance the functionality of a Web Server. It can be accessed by any scripting language which has an engine installed on the server. This includes VBS, Javascript and PERLScript.

    ADO, RDS, RDO, OLE-DB and ODBC are NOT specifically part of ASP or Visual Basic but a series of objects that enhance database functionality and can be utilized by VBS scripts in an ASP environment or Visual Basic applications.

    Using a virus created by a disturbed and warped individual, no matter how brilliant the code is, is not a good way to prove an environment's worth.
    ------------------
    Wayne Luke
    SitePoint Moderator
    ICQ 29015947

    [This message has been edited by wluke (edited May 05, 2000).]

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard
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    True, I know that ASP is not a language. However I do know that somewhere around 98% of Active Server Pages are written in VBScript.

    And by subset I meant something like this:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">code/font><HR><pre>
    Visual Basic
    --VBScript (server)
    --VBA
    --VBScript (client)
    [/code]
    As in, Visual Basic is the parent of all of the other languages. VB itself was first and was the inspiration for all the other languages.

    By subset, I also didn't mean they had the same use; I meant they had similar syntax.

    Wayne, you seem to be a bit hostile to many of my recent posts.

    ------------------
    Who the heck is Gen. Failure and why does he want to read my hard drive?
    Soon to come: Aspology.com

  3. #28
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    I am sorry if it seems I am being too hostile. I don't think anyone should post information that can be misconstrued or taken the wrong way. Your posts can be very well written and enlightening as long as you don't let your emotions dictate over your grasp of technology.

    We all benefit from the Preview in these forums, use it and re-read what you write then edit as needed. I sometimes rewrite posts up to 3 or 4 times before they are worded right. Other times I just click submit and you can tell by reading it. I have some very misworded posts in this forum. That is the main reason I asked for the preview function so I could re-word my posts and not step on so many toes.

    To a newcomer just learning, you are giving incorrect information by saying ASP is a subset of VB. ASP and VB are two totally different technologies and don't have any commonalities besides including various objects to perform tasks. There is no programming involved in ASP except that its objects can be accessed by scripts just like any control installed in the Windows registry. Wouldn't it have been better wording to say that:
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote/font><HR>
    "The LoveBug virus is written in VBA which is a subset of VB. VBA is also very similar to VBScript, which is the language commonly used to access ASP"
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Few more words but a much more cohesive sentence.


    ------------------
    Wayne Luke
    SitePoint Moderator
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  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Wayne that we have a duty to be careful with what we say because there are a great many people in these forums (registered or lurking) that read what we say and believe what we say.

    If we are not careful we could have a lot of misguided people on the web who think they know what they are talking about and don't know what they are talking about - this can easily lead to everyone getting tared with the same brush.

    Just my 2p worth.

    ------------------
    Karl Austin
    KDA Web Services

  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I acknowledged that I made a mistake, so we should now get back on to the real topic, about which programming language is the best.

  6. #31
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    I don't think we can decide which programming language is the 'best', there is no best programming language overall. It all depends on what you are doing and what resources you have at your disposal. In an ideal world we would have a language which contains the power of perl regular expressions, php's ease of use and flexibility (and of course the zend engine, optimiser etc.), asp's ability to easily drop in components (of course these would have to be cross platform compatible e.g. work on windows and linux without alteration).

    But seen as we don't live in an ideal world then we are going to have to choose by the methods mentioned before and hope that some one has the guts and ability to combine the best of all the languages into one.

    ------------------
    Karl Austin
    KDA Web Services

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I agree, you can't really decide which language is the best but you can decide which programming language is best for the job you're doing, and which programming language is the best for yourself (your style, etc.).

    ------------------
    Who the heck is Gen. Failure and why does he want to read my hard drive?
    Soon to come: Aspology.com

  8. #33
    SitePoint Enthusiast Daniel's Avatar
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    Any programming language can be used on the net. You just have to set your servers up to understand them... hehe... Fun stuff, really it is. Therefore, C is still the best choice for everybody. As long as they know what they are doing. And BTW, I don't, my brother set it all up for me ;-).

  9. #34
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    OK. You can't say that anyone programming langauge is best. I am working on a project right now that in order to get it working right will require: WML/WAP, XML, HTML, ASP, Java, Javascript, Visual Basic, Visual Basic Script, C++ and Oracle SQL. That is just one project.

    ------------------
    Wayne Luke
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  10. #35
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I like perl the best. I just find it much easier to code in than anything else, like C++. PRobably the biggest reason is that I dont have to define my variables, which I dislike doing.

    ASP is not a language I dont think. Do you ever code a page in ASP? No you code in vbscript and use ASP components. I dont know the correct word for it but its not a programming language. And yes it is very useful in some instances, as long as you're using all microsoft products. Like making a webpage front end to a access database on NT running IIS. But the bottomline is that most servers are not NT but linux or unix so no asp for you.

    Plus unix/linux servers have potential to be much more powerful since NT isn't good at dual processing.

    But anyways back to the topic at hand.

    Perl, C, C++, Pascal, Java: those are programming languages

    HTML and SQL are formatting languages

    VBscript, Javascript are scripting languages

    Chris


  11. #36
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I usually refer to ASP as a server-side technology when I'm fully awake

    Perl is ideal for some tasks (automating unix, for example) but not for the Web in my opinion. PHP and ASP both have the advantage of being embedded so if you want to output one variable on a 20k html page, you can do it EASILY in asp and php; with Perl you must print() each line. (Also http headers and stuff)

    ------------------
    Who the heck is Gen. Failure and why does he want to read my hard drive?
    Soon to come: Aspology.com

  12. #37
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    SQL is much more than a formatting language. It can do everything that PERL can do. Albeit its data is limited to database tables but the functionality of SQL is much more than formatting. If you want I can post a 14K stored procedure written in SQL to prove it.

    ------------------
    Wayne Luke - Sitepoint Moderator/Internet Media Developer
    Digital Magician Studios - Making Magic with Web Applications
    wluke@digitalmagician.com

    [This message has been edited by wluke (edited May 08, 2000).]

  13. #38
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    Wayne,

    I believe that procedure is written in PL/SQL, Transact SQL or some other SQL extension but not the pure SQL?

    ------------------
    Alan Mendelevich aka ailon
    ArticleCentral.com - The content directory for web professionals.
    MEGOPhotos - Quality photos for FREE. UPDATED

    [This message has been edited by ailon (edited May 09, 2000).]

  14. #39
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    They are still languages that follow the SQL-92 specification, somewhat. More specifically, the "intermediate SQL" (not my term) specification.

    ------------------
    Wayne Luke - Sitepoint Moderator/Internet Media Developer
    Digital Magician Studios - Making Magic with Web Applications
    wluke@digitalmagician.com

  15. #40
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    Well, perl and the web don't seem to match for lots of people. In my opinion there is still a task that only (more or less) cgi seems to be good at : search engines. Haven't you noticed that nearly all search engines are made with CGI. And who says CGI says perl (sure sometimes it's C but most of times perl ).

    by the way, does anybody have a point of view about php or asp in Search engines' field?


    [This message has been edited by Redox (edited May 09, 2000).]

  16. #41
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    Search engines are designed to handle heavy traffic and I beleive that most of their cgis are written in C or something, not perl. Also keep in mind that most of the top search engines are online since the times when asp and php weren't available. Also the most powerfull and valuable part of search engine is crawler/spider/indexer or whatever you call the piece of software indexing all the pages. I believe that client interface of search engine could be easily done with asp or php, especially when application logic (in case of asp) could be handled by some powerfull component written in C or whatever.

    ------------------
    Alan Mendelevich aka ailon
    ArticleCentral.com - The content directory for web professionals.
    MEGOPhotos - Quality photos for FREE. UPDATED

  17. #42
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    I always use ASP - I was introduced to its wonders about 6 months ago - never looked back since!

    [This message has been edited by James (edited May 10, 2000).]

  18. #43
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    I agree with ailon &gt; if you want the most power, go with C. Its several magnitudes (magniti? ) more powerful, faster, and harder to program. If speed is a top issue, use C. If editability or upgrades are important, use a web scripting language.

    Owen

  19. #44
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Most search engine robots ARE written in C. This site lists info on the robots:
    http://info.webcrawler.com/mak/proje...ts/active.html

    Chris

  20. #45
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    ASP and PHP are great for building dynamic pages and integrating your applications but there is now way either of them can be used to make robust, high-speed crawlers. Nor are they going to be able to search a large database like in a search engine fast enough to handle millions of hits per day.

    What they are good for is accessing the stored procedures in those databases which do the searching and displaying the resulting information to the client.

    ------------------
    Wayne Luke - Sitepoint Moderator/Internet Media Developer
    Digital Magician Studios - Making Magic with Web Applications
    wluke@digitalmagician.com


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