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  1. #151
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
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    This sounds almost exactly like the methods I use, although my "ranking algorithm" simply weights all the relevant factors (intitle, inanchor, local results) with the relevance I see fit. After I times this weighting rank by the KEI I get a reasonable rank of the keywords. Once those with lots of optimised competition and high results in intitle and inanchor are weeded out I'm left with a few decent keywords to trial.

    A considerable amount of SEO companies use "magic algorithms" to rank keywords, so I'm usually wary against any claims of a magical rank. The truth of the matter is that these numbers given to us by Google and other tools aren't even close to being reliable, but they're more than capable of weeding out the terrible keywords from the reasonable. Once you're left with a group of keyword phrases that you know are worthwhile no rank is going to point them out. I'm perfectly okay with my rank being out by a bit, because no rank is going to point out what is already obvious in your head.

    I really enjoyed the point of giving all your data out to clients, as I do the same thing, including my ranking algorithm. I'd recommend that any SEO analyst or consultant do the same thing, as giving out your methods to your clients is not only helpful, but reassuring. The best part is that if a client finds a flaw in your methods, something I'm sure has happened to me, then they can probably see themselves where to fix/improve it, or hire another SEO analyst to clear my mess (hopefully this hasn't happened).

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ULTiMATE View Post
    This sounds almost exactly like the methods I use, although my "ranking algorithm" simply weights all the relevant factors (intitle, inanchor, local results) with the relevance I see fit. After I times this weighting rank by the KEI I get a reasonable rank of the keywords. Once those with lots of optimised competition and high results in intitle and inanchor are weeded out I'm left with a few decent keywords to trial.

    A considerable amount of SEO companies use "magic algorithms" to rank keywords, so I'm usually wary against any claims of a magical rank. The truth of the matter is that these numbers given to us by Google and other tools aren't even close to being reliable, but they're more than capable of weeding out the terrible keywords from the reasonable. Once you're left with a group of keyword phrases that you know are worthwhile no rank is going to point them out. I'm perfectly okay with my rank being out by a bit, because no rank is going to point out what is already obvious in your head.

    I really enjoyed the point of giving all your data out to clients, as I do the same thing, including my ranking algorithm. I'd recommend that any SEO analyst or consultant do the same thing, as giving out your methods to your clients is not only helpful, but reassuring. The best part is that if a client finds a flaw in your methods, something I'm sure has happened to me, then they can probably see themselves where to fix/improve it, or hire another SEO analyst to clear my mess (hopefully this hasn't happened).
    Thanks, my feeling is that search counts from Google, whilst skewed, are better than someone like Wordtracker trying to guess what people are doing on Google.

    I only use the KEI to thin out the list, as you do, I certainly wouldn't rely on it as a 'magic' indicator of keyword strength, it's a guideline, nothing more to cope with lists that might have 1000 keywords on them. The main problem with it is that pages can rank well without any of the factors used in KEI.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
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  3. #153
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    Thanks, my feeling is that search counts from Google, whilst skewed, are better than someone like Wordtracker trying to guess what people are doing on Google.

    I only use the KEI to thin out the list, as you do, I certainly wouldn't rely on it as a 'magic' indicator of keyword strength, it's a guideline, nothing more to cope with lists that might have 1000 keywords on them. The main problem with it is that pages can rank well without any of the factors used in KEI.
    Absolutely. In all honesty I don't really trust Google's numbers, although it's common sense to get your numbers from the source than from sites that take theirs from less popular search engine mash-up's like Dogpile.

    My algorithm works as you've mentioned, and admittedly it's not perfect. Today, KEI is almost irrelevant, but by creating a weight using relevant factors (the more the better) the overall rank will either kill or boost the KEI, sometimes dramatically. I also pack my spreadsheet with hundreds or thousands of related keywords, taken from every keyword suggesting tool and my own Analytics data (the more the merrier), and just weed out the weakest. Once I'm down to 20 common sense kicks in. Luckily, by using the weight I generate from relevant factors good keyword phrases will rank well, but when they rank too well I know there's a problem that I need to investigate.

    This is where I come up with my final list, and where my approach differs slightly to yours. I generate thousands of backlinks through several tools and myself using Yahoo and Google and then spend my time manually coming up with a relevant rank to give these pages for competitiveness. I fill up several spreadsheets on the top 10 websites of every keyword phrase I've picked in my top 10-20 and analyse them.

    This approach works for me as while my tools work I can start writing up the Competitor Analysis. All of my competitors and their backlinks are strutinised during these phases and once I've finished and halved my list down to around 5 keywords to use I can then use my (almost finished) Competitor Analysis to decide for myself where I can compete with these keywords. I end up with a large document outlining everything about my competitors, something I notice that a lot of SEO companies won't cover, and this information is all given to my client and used/referenced throughout the SEO process.

    It's sometimes extremely tedious and takes a while to do, but this way I can maintain transparency throughout my reports and refer to data I've assembled throughout the whole SEO process, meaning companies can review my progress and I can keep up with what I've done. Sometime soon I might put up some sample reports and information on how I do my Competitor Analysis if others feel they can benefit from it, although I'd hardly call it an expert method or better than anyone elses approach.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ULTiMATE View Post
    This is where I come up with my final list, and where my approach differs slightly to yours. I generate thousands of backlinks through several tools and myself using Yahoo and Google and then spend my time manually coming up with a relevant rank to give these pages for competitiveness. I fill up several spreadsheets on the top 10 websites of every keyword phrase I've picked in my top 10-20 and analyse them.

    This approach works for me as while my tools work I can start writing up the Competitor Analysis. All of my competitors and their backlinks are strutinised during these phases and once I've finished and halved my list down to around 5 keywords to use I can then use my (almost finished) Competitor Analysis to decide for myself where I can compete with these keywords. I end up with a large document outlining everything about my competitors, something I notice that a lot of SEO companies won't cover, and this information is all given to my client and used/referenced throughout the SEO process.

    It's sometimes extremely tedious and takes a while to do, but this way I can maintain transparency throughout my reports and refer to data I've assembled throughout the whole SEO process, meaning companies can review my progress and I can keep up with what I've done. Sometime soon I might put up some sample reports and information on how I do my Competitor Analysis if others feel they can benefit from it, although I'd hardly call it an expert method or better than anyone elses approach.
    This is one area where we differ for sure, whilst I do look at the top ten returning pages, their backlinks and their on page SEO, I don't do a full competitors analysis for my clients for the simple reason that I can't cover that time on what I charge for SEO. I can see how it would be a benefit but I'm not planning to start doing it in any more detail than I already do that anytime soon, I expect them to trust that I've taken it into account and of course the results are the final test of that. I do include the number of backlinks to competing pages in my spreadsheet.

    I'll also use between 5-25 keyword phrases too based on the theory that since SEO is no longer about ranking high but about generating quality leads, it's better to rank page one or two for 20 phrases than position No 1 for 2 phrases.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
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  5. #155
    SitePoint Member Dashboard's Avatar
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    Sometimes we are over doing it. All you need to do is to check your keyword density. Face the site or the website that you would like to test for keyword analysis and one by one list the word that you think is crucial for your site and then have them search over in search engine and look for the key result you will find how busy this word is by looking on the upper side right of your screen.
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  6. #156
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dashboard View Post
    Sometimes we are over doing it. All you need to do is to check your keyword density. Face the site or the website that you would like to test for keyword analysis and one by one list the word that you think is crucial for your site and then have them search over in search engine and look for the key result you will find how busy this word is by looking on the upper side right of your screen.
    I disagree.

    SEO was never supposed to be easy, and search engines are making it harder and harder for people to game them. In fact, SEO as we know it is dying out, with much of what SEO Analysts/Consultants do becoming more like Technical Marketing. Simply checking your keyword density isn't going to do anything. How do you know that you're targeting the best keywords for your market sector? How do you pick what keywords are relevant to your website and what will bring you the most traffic? How do you learn what terms are the best to compete for?

    The method outlined at the start of thist hread is actually very simple, so all credit must go to JJMcClure for his no-frills explanation. SEO is full of cowboys that scam clients out of their money so we need to do things properly and build a good reputation in an industry that many despise.

    Of course, if you're running your own website and not the website (and budget) of another company then you are welcome to do whatever you want. Who knows? You may find the exact method required to make your website big! Many of us are happy enough to be in the business of Search Engine Marketing instead of marketing or optimising something truly complex.

  7. #157
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    Thanks for your advices.
    I also use some keywords research tools, such as:
    Google Keyword Tool
    SEO digger
    Microsoft AdCenter's keyword mutation tool
    Wordtracker
    Keyword Discovery

  8. #158
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    Normally, Keywords' choice is very important for every SEOer, once in the first of web design. Many people do the analysis depand on the digitalpoint.com or other SEOer analysis tools semply.

  9. #159
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    I have an interesting suggestion. Let's do benchmarking. Namely, give us a site for which you need to collect keywords and those who want will contribute using any sources they want and we will be able to compare results. I have my software and will definitely be happy to generate keywords for this site.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by durrenmatt View Post
    i am using google keyword research that is google analytics, some time i search from google
    Shouldn'y it be Google Adwords? The ones in analytics only displays the keywords people used to find your website.

    Quote Originally Posted by remshad View Post
    Am little more confused with key word research how to do it?
    First sort out what niche are you targeting and what website are you building. It's important that you first do keyword research before making a website. You can list down keywords you want and will be relevant to the website. Then use some of those keyword research tool.

  11. #161
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    I am curious, if you check your competitors' backlinks, what then? You try and get links from those sites too?

    Secondly, if keywords search numbers given by Google are not accurate, why not just track search volume change. If you consistently give the wrong number, the only thing that will be accurate will be the trend.
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  12. #162
    JustAFanOfSlash mdamin76's Avatar
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    I started with using wordtracker for one keyword, eg. ringtones - and wordtracker shows up some suggestions ranked by popularity, and I chose one from it's top five. Next, I'll google for the chosen keyword and see which site ranked 1st. Then, I'll use alexa to see which keyword exactly that site is getting traffic from. So far, it's best method I've ever used, but I guess other webmasters may have their own way and practice.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJKock View Post
    I am curious, if you check your competitors' backlinks, what then? You try and get links from those sites too?
    Exactly. It's a great way to build backlinks. You know which sites link to your competitors, so there's a good chance that you'll be able to get a backlink from those sites too. And you know that they're all related sites (same neighborhood) so that's another plus.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJKock View Post
    I am curious, if you check your competitors' backlinks, what then? You try and get links from those sites too?

    Secondly, if keywords search numbers given by Google are not accurate, why not just track search volume change. If you consistently give the wrong number, the only thing that will be accurate will be the trend.
    Good points.

    Yes, that's one method I use to get backlinks.

    Regarding search numbers, I'd rather be getting skewed figures from Google themselves than best guesses from the other keyword tools but I treat the numbers as if they were just a trend or an indicator anyway, rather than treating them as completely accurate.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
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  15. #165
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    I use market samurai for researching keywords and competition. I look for words that get 2000 searches or more and looking on Google for 150,000 competing sites or less. Then at this point I analyze the top ten results in Google. I look for 3 or more sites with PR3 or less and at least 2 sites with 50 back-links or less. And my last test is to Google the keyword phrase and see if this are people paying for clicks and to see if there is a commercial intent for the keyword search phrase.

  16. #166
    SitePoint Addict zaizaices's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJKock View Post
    I am curious, if you check your competitors' backlinks, what then? You try and get links from those sites too?
    You can use that method if you want to rank higher than your competitors or just to keep track on who are they linking to. In short, "spying".

  17. #167
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    Please tell me about intitle:"keyword" and inanchor:"keyword"
    I do a search for my targeted keyword and i found my site NO.1 for intitle:"keyword" and NO.4 for inanchor:"keyword"
    What does it means.
    Plz plz give me answer.
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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by getereffs View Post
    Please tell me about intitle:"keyword" and inanchor:"keyword"
    intitle means that it's searching for that phrase in the page title, eg. <title>keyword1 keyword2</title>
    inanchor means that the phrase is in a link that points to the site (an inbound link, or IBL) eg. <a href="yoursite.com">keyword</a>

    Now what I don't get:

    Why does
    intitle:"landscaping ideas" come up with less results than
    intitle:"landscaping ideas"+inanchor:"landscaping ideas"

    That doesn't make sense to me.

  19. #169
    SitePoint Zealot Scrampy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I use traffic travis for much of my keyword stuff now. But I used to be an excel junkie lol

    This is how I do my keyword research. I got this idea from the keyword academy. So if you like this, go join their site lol

    OK, so I like to take notes - Here are some very detailed notes I took while doing a course online (I hope I'm not giving away any trade secrets here!)

    Follow them exactly, and make sure to do them in order (I'll add some time saving tips a bit later when I get time! - does that make ANY sense?)

    So here it is...

    *******************************************************

    (SAVE YOUR FILES OFTEN!)

    Keyword research:

    1. Go to amazon.com
    2. Chose a department
    3. chose a sub category
    4. Look for brand names etc
    5. Go to Google keyword tool
    6. enter broad match keyword
    7. hide columns - advertiser competition - Approx search volume and Local search volume
    8. Show 'estimated avg CPC" column
    9. change broad match type to: EXACT
    10. sort by "approx avg search volume"
    11. export to excel spreadsheet
    12. add column "POTENTIAL" (cell D1)
    13. enter formula: =B2*0.25*C2*0.4*0.05 in cell d2 (This means... 25% of the CPC times how many searches for the phrase times estimation of traffic from 1st page [40%] times about 5% click through rate on site)
    14. copy down through the entire list
    15. sort by potential (highlight all fields, click Data>Sort>By Column D>Descending)
    16. add heaps of keywords to the list (repeat above process using as many related keywords you can find on amazon or think of using your brain)
    17. sort again when reached 5000 keywords (might take an hour?)
    18. delete any that earn less than $50/m potential

    Part 2 - Prepare to Check Competition By Searching Google

    (excel spreadsheet column headings A1: SEARCH A2: KEYWORD A3: OUTPUT URL)

    1. Grab another excel spreadsheet and enter this data in to the left column A2: http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=

    2. Leave column B Blank for now

    3. Enter this data into column C2: =IF(B2="","",CONCATENATE("<a href=""",A2,SUBSTITUTE($B2," ","+"),""">",B2,"</a><br>")

    4. SAVE IT SOMEWHERE SAFE!

    5. Go and download the firefox addon called "Linkey" from: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/425

    6. Go and download firefox addon called: "SEO For Firefox" from: http://tools.seobook.com/firefox/seo-for-firefox.html

    7. Adjust settings on SEO for Firefox to "Show pagerank automatically" with a delay of 1-2 seconds (less demand on google and less likely to get banned!)

    How To use it:

    1. Enter in all your keywords that have potential earnings above $50/month into column B (and watch the url's code come out in column C)

    2. Copy column C into a Notepad file and save it as .html extension to your desktop (or somewhere you'll remember)

    3. Open it

    4. Use mouse to highlight approx 100 of the links (select less if you have a slower internet connection)

    5. Right click your mouse and choose Linkey>Open Selected Links In Tabs

    6. Go get a cup of tea while you wait for the data to load

    7. Highlight the keywords that meet the following criteria:
    - Top 4 results with pr3 or less
    - OK with pr4 ONLY if EXACT keyword is NOT in title
    - we never go after keywords that have ranked sites with pr5+
    (NOTE: once I got to the sites with less than $100 potential, I only took sites with competition of less than pr3 - No point working too hard!)

    The resulting keywords are getting enough traffic, and have few enough competition for you to rank highly with the least amount of effort.

    Now that you've done all that... here's one I prepared earlier (look honestly, you're better off doing it yourself at least once so you know what it's all about) DOWNLOAD KEYWORD URL GENERATOR

    In my opinion, keyword (market) research is the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of setting up a website or business. Think about this: if you don't know what your market wants, how are you going to give it to them?

    Dave

  20. #170
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    Hey Dave,

    Seems like as good a method as any I've seen but I'm curious about one thing. You say "we never go after keywords that have ranked sites with pr5+" but since a highly relevant page will always outrank a high PR site (do you mean page?), are you not potentially excluding strong or profitable keywords by just ignoring any that fit that criteria?
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
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  21. #171
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    Thanks for sharing there JJM. I think you can go to work now.

    Anyway, I've read your post and I have to thank you for mentioning using wordtracker as the source to see how the keywords really perform. By the way, there is also one tool which can come in handy specially for keywords analysis and research, and I believe they call it 'market samurai'. There is a free version also, and it shows really good stats specially when your looking for keywords or niches that are searched well and with less competitors.

    Thanks again. I will try your style this weekend.

  22. #172
    SitePoint Zealot Scrampy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    Hey Dave,

    Seems like as good a method as any I've seen but I'm curious about one thing. You say "we never go after keywords that have ranked sites with pr5+" but since a highly relevant page will always outrank a high PR site (do you mean page?), are you not potentially excluding strong or profitable keywords by just ignoring any that fit that criteria?
    You raise a good point JJMcClure,

    The guide I use was taken from a course I did found at "The Keyword Academy". I'm fairly sure that when taking the notes I simply quoted directly from them.

    I'd say their intention was to keep it simple, and not go into any differences between page rank, and relevance at that point. I'd say they were simply giving some rules that people could follow without having to think about it, and come up with some really decent keywords. And it seems to work (for me anyway).

    But of course when I think about it I've seen many lower PR sites sitting higher up on the results than high PR sites for certain search terms. Actually it's pretty common isn't it.

    It just shows how important relevance is to the algorithm I guess.

    On the other hand... isn't PR supposed to be a similar indicator anyway?

    At the end of the day, top of page 1 is top of page 1. Having high relevance, and/or PR is a good thing

    Dave

  23. #173
    SitePoint Zealot Scrampy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John peterr View Post
    Hi,
    Yes your doing it in the correct way, and the manner you had potrayed your thoughts show that you are having really good command over the keyword research.
    Thanks John, (I'm assuming you were talking to me )

    I actually like the keyword research part of this whole internet marketing thing better than any other part. It's like getting into the minds of the population and finding out what they're actually thinking.

    I think with enough practice, someone could safely predict the future with this kind of knowledge! *evil laugh* lol

    Dave

  24. #174
    SitePoint Zealot Scrampy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgscotty View Post
    Hello.

    How likely is it that different keyword researchers would produce broadly similar "best" keyword lists?

    Cheers,

    BG
    I think this is a really interesting idea! I wonder if anyone's actually put this to the test? you know, among the elite etc

    Anyone want to volunteer?

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    you must also check for inurl:"keyword'. to get the urls that contain the keyword. It can also help you specially when you are doing competitor analysis


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