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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Mountain View View Post
    There is another aspect of keyword development that may begin to change things in search and that is the use of LSI or LSA. This is Latent Semantic Indexing and Latent Semantic Analysis. It is about the relationship of where your words appear in your text.

    Here are a few links on the subject.

    http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lat...antic_analysis

    http://www.seobook.com/archives/000657.shtml

    This may be the direction that search is going.
    You might be interested to read this thread from back in June What is L.S.I. ???
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
    ImgWebDesign - Web design in Buxton, High Peak, Derbyshire UK.

  2. #52
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    Im chossing competitive KWs by comparing the number of searches over the number competitors for the given KW. There might be low HIGH number of competitors, but the number of search query is fair, so for me, that kind of KW is competitive.

  3. #53
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    What's the best free keyword research tool out there? I currently use Google's Keyword tool, but can someone recommend another? thanks.

  4. #54
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    good keywords is pretty good

    and for an online tool, i always use this keyword discovery tool

  5. #55
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    Wanted to ask one thing.

    Do you put "quotes" around the keyword phrase while searching for google page result and the intitle & inanchor function??

  6. #56
    SitePoint Zealot korr's Avatar
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    Alright, first of all I want to humbly thank the OP for sharing such a methodical approach to keyword analysis. The only thing I could possibly add is to also consider the relative revenue potential of all the keywords related to a main topic. Certain secondary keywords might be more or less likely to indicate a searcher is interested in a sale - and there are some circumstances I would choose lower traffic and higher competition KWs.

    Now I tend to operate intuitively so I won't be making long charts and I'll be making more stupid/careless mistakes instead - but if I'm selling {product} and:

    {product} in stock
    had 100 searches a month and a competition factor of 7

    it might be more attractive than

    {product} reviews
    with 200 searches and a competition factor of 5.


    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    Competing pages BackLink analysis

    9. I Google each keyword phrase again but this time I'm looking at the top 10 returning pages and analysing the strength of their incoming links. I take each page and use Yahoo's Site Explorer to look at all their backlinks. What I'm looking for in particular is the use of the actual keyword phrase in the anchor text.
    Now, I have recently had a problem with this for my highest paying keyword.

    My top competitor seems to have about 4 pages on his domain and less than a dozen backlinks from PR0 pages pointing to the whole domain. There is almost certainly some kind of deliberate effort to hide backlinks through redirects or whatever technical trick I'm not even aware of - and I have no idea how to really analyze what its going to take to be a real contender there.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by korr View Post
    Now, I have recently had a problem with this for my highest paying keyword.

    My top competitor seems to have about 4 pages on his domain and less than a dozen backlinks from PR0 pages pointing to the whole domain. There is almost certainly some kind of deliberate effort to hide backlinks through redirects or whatever technical trick I'm not even aware of - and I have no idea how to really analyze what its going to take to be a real contender there.
    This goes beyond the scope of the basic keyword analysis and becomes what I would consider an in-depth analysis. I don't have time to figure out if some clever link hiding scheme is taking place in a normal keyword analysis so I take the links at face value.

    If they're using some black hat technique you can be sure that it will catch up them in the end, it simply isn't a viable long term strategy. If you can actually figure out what they're doing then report them and watch them disappear from the rankings.

    What makes you think that there's something dodgy going on? Could his links not just be more relevant than the other competing pages?
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
    ImgWebDesign - Web design in Buxton, High Peak, Derbyshire UK.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Zealot korr's Avatar
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    Well for the URL at #1 there's only like four backlinks pointing to the page. None of them are relevant and none of them have any pagerank. There is absolutely zero (visible) internal linking on the domain.

    I guess there is a secondary URL that 301s to the primary one, and the backlinks were pointed at the secondary URL to keep them hidden? I'm not sure if that's even something Google would deem ban-worthy - especially since he's already buying up the top Adwords spots, too.
    Last edited by korr; Aug 15, 2008 at 06:59.
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  9. #59
    SitePoint Member eye4u's Avatar
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    jlisec01,

    you can try keyword elite but expensive or if you want to learn more about PPC campaign and driving traffic to your website, you can download "Free Adwords Pay Per Click Guide" link below.

  10. #60
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    It is always good to do a deep analysis. But you should never forget to check it with real human beings.

    Just test with some friends how they would try to search your offer.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renso82 View Post
    It is always good to do a deep analysis. But you should never forget to check it with real human beings.

    Just test with some friends how they would try to search your offer.
    Not really the most time efficient way to do it, I want answers now not in a week or whenever my friends can be bothered to do it, plus they won't stay friends for long if you keep asking them to do it, plus all they'd be able to do is make suggestions for your seed list.

    Keyword research tools can ask hundreds of 'friends' simultaneously and tell you how many people are searching using those phrases too.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
    ImgWebDesign - Web design in Buxton, High Peak, Derbyshire UK.

  12. #62
    SitePoint Member mekingo's Avatar
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    Google keyword analyzer seems best for me. I've been playing with wordtracker which seems very good but I get different results from the two. Maybe google's results are somewhat biased? I hope not since it is easier to use and is free, Anyway i've had good results using it.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mekingo View Post
    Google keyword analyzer seems best for me. I've been playing with wordtracker which seems very good but I get different results from the two. Maybe google's results are somewhat biased? I hope not since it is easier to use and is free, Anyway i've had good results using it.
    I don't think you guys are getting the point.

    Keyword analyzers are okay to use, but they are absolutely NOT the best way to get your keywords. It takes much more than a free tool to figure out what's best for your site.

    Think about it - millions of people use Adwords. 90% of them use the keyword analyzers... yet 90% still rank terribly.... because they haven't done competitive keyword analysis.

    (I made up those numbers - but you get the point - if a free tool was that good, then every site would be optimized for the best keywords, and they're not)

    I'm sure that I could put up a better argument for this - but it's too early.

    PS - There are many theories out there that Google uses their keyword tool to collect data from other's - it supposedly benefits them MUCH more than it does us...

  14. #64
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    Nice post, question do you know any other keyword traffic estimator tool besides yahoo and wordtracker ?
    I write about tech web news and have a professional logo shop
    Also I learn a lot of Web design tips and tutorials

  15. #65
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    Trellain's KeywordDiscovery Tool over at www.keyworddiscovery.com

  16. #66
    SitePoint Member classylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtm32236 View Post
    ...millions of people use Adwords. 90% of them use the keyword analyzers... yet 90% still rank terribly.... because they haven't done competitive keyword analysis.

    PS - There are many theories out there that Google uses their keyword tool to collect data from other's - it supposedly benefits them MUCH more than it does us...
    I have been toying with a few programs, but Adwords and Pro Keyword Search IMO are as good as it gets for keyword analysis. As far as Google's collection of free data, unfortunately we rely on their product because it's clearly the basis from which 80% of internet users get their information on a variety of information (including anything related to making sales like a company or product), so if they want to collect anonymous information from us for using their service, then so be it.

    Off-topic, but relevant: I wonder what the world would've been like if Yahoo just dished out the 1+ million to the Stanford duo back when they were shopping their algorithm around. Well, one thing's for sure, Terry would still be top dog!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by classylady View Post
    I have been toying with a few programs, but Adwords and Pro Keyword Search IMO are as good as it gets for keyword analysis. As far as Google's collection of free data, unfortunately we rely on their product because it's clearly the basis from which 80% of internet users get their information on a variety of information (including anything related to making sales like a company or product), so if they want to collect anonymous information from us for using their service, then so be it.
    This isn't my point...

    My point is that this thread is supposed to be for people that do competitive keyword analysis and research their keywords in ways that these tools will not. Anyone in the world can use these tools to find their best keywords, and that's great... BUT JJMcClure showed us ways to find what keywords could work best to rank above your competition.

    It's a much more in-depth analysis... a lot more precise than and simple tool will give you.

    This thread isn't for the purpose of finding out what keyword tools people use. It doesn't matter what software or website you use. What matters is how far you take it and your methods of finding the perfect keyword.

    Please don't respond with "this tool works best for me..." because competitive keyword analysis goes way beyond that.

  18. #68
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    Interesting, what you have posted are all very good points. But, what are the tools you used in searching the keywords?
    The Click Depot is the leading Raleigh Internet Marketing firm.

  19. #69
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    Wordtracker, Trillian Keyword Discovery, Google's Adwords tools, and many others mentioned are all good to use. But to discover the best words that will rank highest for a particular site goes beyond these tools. There are methods (see the first post in this thread) that you can implement to find the best phrases to rank above your competitors.

  20. #70
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    Thanks for the post. Find it really useful. I've been doing keyword analysis and selection research now, and have come across tons of tools. I think each tool has been built with a certain degree of understanding and logic to one's need.

    I can't point a finger on any particular tool as I select my keywords with different factors in mind rather than just search vol.

    Over the years i've used, WEBCEO, Google Set, Wordtracker, Keyword discovery tool.I lost my previous account so had to set up a new one. really a PAIN!



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  21. #71
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    Nice post JJMcClure.
    I live in Norway and experience that the Google Keyword tool does not have enough data to predict any traffic numbers or synonyms that is important to me in regional search engines. Perhaps somebody know which keyword tool available that is good enough to use for Norwegian search engines?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by datatrond View Post
    Nice post JJMcClure.
    I live in Norway and experience that the Google Keyword tool does not have enough data to predict any traffic numbers or synonyms that is important to me in regional search engines. Perhaps somebody know which keyword tool available that is good enough to use for Norwegian search engines?
    Thanks datatrond.

    If the Google keyword tool isn't giving enough data then you may just have to work with the existing tools and extrapolate, like we've always had to do.

    (I tried it and it was coming back with numbers for the "Approx Avg Search Volume" everytime, are you not getting that for the keywords that you're searching for?)

    It's funny because I'd come on to update this thread and mention the Google Adwords keyword tool because it's the one thing I do significantly differently from when I orginally wrote that post. I still use Wordtracker because it's useful to have a numbers comparison, but anyone doing keyword research should also be using the search numbers being released by Google now.

    As with Wordtracker though, Google isn't always consistent, if you compare Google search numbers with Google trends they don't always match up but it's the best we have to work with at the moment.

    I also changed the specific competition searches to include an 'inurl:' search rather than 'inanchor:' because it seems more logical that a page that is ranking well for a term is more likely to have that term in it's name (the file name)and Title rather than in the Title and a link that leaves the page to go elsewhere, presumably to a page about the keyword subject.

    However, if you have a page where you have the keyword in the Title, the page URL AND a link leaving the page such as a home page is likely to, then I think that page will generally rank better than pages with only two of those keyword uses in any combination but I'm in the middle of testing this and will let you know what happens.
    Last edited by JJMcClure; Oct 20, 2008 at 02:41.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
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  23. #73
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    instead of focusing to much what the competition does, sometimes its just better to focus on our sites and make some quality content and good back link and that would be all thats needed for good SEO, to much optimization can even hurt a site sometimes
    Last edited by Dan Schulz; Aug 10, 2009 at 21:07. Reason: removed fake signature added in 2008

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phpwnes View Post
    instead of focusing to much what the competition does, sometimes its just better to focus on our sites and make some quality content and good back link and that would be all thats needed for good SEO, to much optimization can even hurt a site sometimes
    Sure, that's one approach.

    What you're suggesting is the equivalent of going hunting with a really nice rifle and some top quality ammo then firing it blindly some woods in the hope that you'll hit something, or maybe just hoping that if you keep pulling the trigger that something will wander in front of your sights and get nailed.

    Other people prefer to identify their primary demographic, then make sure that they can get their product in front of that demographic, and online, keyword research is one of the ways to do that. The purpose of competitive keyword research is to make sure that you actually have a chance of ranking well with the keyword phrases that you have chosen instead of picking and hoping.

    Carefully researched, targeted keyword use will always have better results than just hoping people find you, however... each to their own. You don't have to do SEO.
    It's 530 people, but do you really get it?
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMcClure View Post
    Sure, that's one approach.

    What you're suggesting is the equivalent of going hunting with a really nice rifle and some top quality ammo then firing it blindly some woods in the hope that you'll hit something, or maybe just hoping that if you keep pulling the trigger that something will wander in front of your sights and get nailed.

    Other people prefer to identify their primary demographic, then make sure that they can get their product in front of that demographic, and online, keyword research is one of the ways to do that. The purpose of competitive keyword research is to make sure that you actually have a chance of ranking well with the keyword phrases that you have chosen instead of picking and hoping.

    Carefully researched, targeted keyword use will always have better results than just hoping people find you, however... each to their own. You don't have to do SEO.
    good example but i never mentioned not targeting keywords but instead of spying on the other hunters just set some good bait and wait for the prey to come


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