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  1. #1
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    Which Design Software ?

    I have DWeaver CS3 but I think its too complicated for me. What other design softwares are out there ? I dont want free... they are to simple, so I dont mind paying, but it needs to be user friendly and WYSIWYG.

    I dont like the DWCS3 because it just does weird things. I can select text and tell it to be bigger, change color, style, etc. and it wont DO it. I cant even copy and paste objects within the same page. Just weird. I am thinking its gotten too complicated and I dont have the time to read and learn how to play nice with it.

    Any other design softwares you would suggest I look at ?

    Thanks

    Paul

  2. #2
    doing my best to help c2uk's Avatar
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    If you don't have the time to read and learn yet have the money to buy CS3 and consider now paying for another tool that might have the same problems, why don't you just find a web designer that can make you a website?
    Dan G
    Marketing Strategist & Consultant

  3. #3
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Oh come on now, don't be harsh on him.

    Paul, have you ever considered sitting down and learning how to code by hand? Also, do you have any experience with graphics programs like Photoshop and/or Paint Shop Pro? I've found that coding HTML and CSS by hand (which isn't that hard, even for "slow learners" such as myself) to be far better than relying on software to "do it" for me.

  4. #4
    Function Curry'er JimmyP's Avatar
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    I agree with the above comments.

    If you insist on buying a WYSIWYG software package then I highly recomend that you stick with Dreamweaver and learn it properly. It is a very very powerful application and you'll be surprised what you can do with it.

    If you don't think your up to the task of learning Dreamweaver by yourself then you should have a look at a video tutorial site such as Lynda.com! They have quite a few tutorials focusing on Dreamweaver. The subscription fee is quite hefty but I think it's worth it.

    If you are truly determined I really suggest learning HTML and CSS. Together they are the building blocks of the internet and I know you'll be much better off and much more capable having learnt them.

    Of course, you don't have to pay for tutorials. There are fantastic tutorials and walkthroughs available on the web.
    James Padolsey
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  5. #5
    doing my best to help c2uk's Avatar
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    This shouldn't have been harsh (that's my German mentality, we are very direct and as a result might come across a bit harsh).

    He clearly is more willing to invest money than time to learn something. In 99% of the cases where it is like this you would advice him to go to a professional, so why not in this case then?
    Dan G
    Marketing Strategist & Consultant

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    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c2uk View Post
    This shouldn't have been harsh (that's my German mentality, we are very direct and as a result might come across a bit harsh).

    He clearly is more willing to invest money than time to learn something. In 99% of the cases where it is like this you would advice him to go to a professional, so why not in this case then?
    German mentalities aside (I have a strong case of it myself), I like to give people options - and hope (not false hope, but the real kind). That way they can decide for themselves if they want to learn at least the basics or to turn around and hire a competent professional.

  7. #7
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    Are you guys enjoying yourselves? I still havent gotten any suggestions for alternative softwares. Feel free to continue the banter, but offer an answer to th question I asked.

    Dan, (I meant C2UK, not Dan - sorry Dan) I did take your response as a jerk to be honest and you didnt offer any answers to what I asked... yes, I understand you thought you were "helping" but if you are going to be harsh, then at least do that WITH an answer to a person's question.

    I happen to know HTML some and have designed several websites (my own included <snip>, and have a degree in commercial graphics. I used Dreamweaver 4 for several years and enjoyed its simplicity, but had to upgrade to CS3 and the GUI got real complicated... and things dont seem to work anymore as simple as they USE to. As I said in the 1st post, just simple tasks just dont happen and show up. I do want to be able to work on my own sites (and friends) so I will not be hiring anyone. I can do it, I am just totally tired of fighting DWCS3.
    Last edited by paulalford; Apr 14, 2008 at 06:14.

  8. #8
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Sorry Paul, I wasn't aware that you know how to code by hand (since you didn't say that in your post, so I just assumed that you were primarily a "design view" user). If you don't mind me asking, why did you upgrade to CS3? (I've heard a lot of complaints about Adobe's products becoming bloated and too complicated with the CS3 suite - especially Photoshop.)

    We do have a Dreamweaver expert here, she might be able to help you with this. Her name is Nadia Perre (her username here is Nadia P). I'll PM her and see if she can offer any insight here.

  9. #9
    Function Curry'er JimmyP's Avatar
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    Paul, have you looked at Microsoft's new Expression Web?

    There have been some good comments about it (especcially V2) and the 2nd Edition Beta version is free to download until July 1st...
    James Padolsey
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  10. #10
    doing my best to help c2uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulalford View Post
    Dan, I did take your response as a jerk to be honest and you didnt offer any answers to what I asked... yes, I understand you thought you were "helping" but if you are going to be harsh, then at least do that WITH an answer to a person's question.
    I did ask you a question, though, and I really expected an answer to that one. Sorry, if you guys are so sensitive over there.

    Anyway, your question sounded like you are a design view kind of guy that just bought CS3 and is fed up with it, has no patience to learn it and basically is ready to make the same mistake again (in my eyes a waste of money), and in that case my personal view is you should seek a professional to do it for you.

    But to answer your questions: well, there are not so many software packages out there now that Adobe has bought Macromedia, but Microsoft has Expression.

    P.S. And thanks to Jimmy we now know that the beta is free to download.
    Dan G
    Marketing Strategist & Consultant

  11. #11
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Paul, just wanted to let you know that I sent Nadia a PM for you.

  12. #12
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    Thanks Dan. No, I dont have any current fight going on with DW, but they happen ALL the time so I am sure I will soon.

    I loved DW4 but many of the flash buttons wouldnt work on the newer Explorer and I didnt know how to fix that, so looked at the new DW (CS3) and it had fix for the flash issue (which just created a new scripts folder with the run_activecontent file in there). Soooo, I could have done that with the older DW4. I even tried to re-install DW4 (since I liked it better) but now wont install and run... I am assuming because of XP or something (havent figured that out)... so I my arm is behind my back having to deal with DWCS3. I would also say that I AM a more visual designer so I stay away from code whenever possible.

    I am even now looking at WebEasy, CoffeeCupHTML Editor for SIMPLICITY. I never try to create a super complex website, just something visually appealing, but when I select the text in DW and tell it to go BOLD and it refuses... That just aint right. Life is too short for this comlicated. I will find something else to design with. I just downloaded Web Expressions (from MicroSoft) and it looks and feels like DW - too complex for me... so already un-installed after 5 minutes of playing with it.

    Thanks Jimmy.. we must have been typing at the same time. I did see Web Expression V2... and will try that one now... eventhough it will probably look and feel like the current version... so not much hope. (April 14) sure nuf, I did download and play with Web Expression v2 and it sthe same as the original Expression.... just too convoluted looking and feeling for me. I will stick with DWeaver for now and just have to post some of those issues when they arise and hopefully someone here can help me then.

    Thanks for the help folks.
    Paul
    Last edited by paulalford; Apr 14, 2008 at 06:18. Reason: added info

  13. #13
    Team SitePoint AlexW's Avatar
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    Paul, there may be a reasonable reason for DW not directly applying your bolding. The <bold> tag is designed for emphasizing words or phrases within a block of text, but it's not so good for wrapping entire paragraphs.

    Off the top of the head, I'd guess it was creating a new bold CSS class and applying that class to your text. Just a guess.
    Alex Walker
    SitePoint Developer
    SitePoint - Learnable

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    SitePoint Enthusiast antitoxic's Avatar
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    I have quite a similar quest to find Dreamweaver alternative so I decided not to post new thread. I work pure hand code (even too much) and I seek alternative which simply includes:
    • tag attribute suggestion on space in tag
    • class or id suggestion from internal or external stylesheet
    • css suggestions in css files
    • css properties values suggestions (which inludes color picker on space and browse for file on space)


    As "suggestions" I mean this popup which opens in dreamweaver.
    I need no tag autocomplete or whatever scripts, macros or plugins there are. Just that. With suggestion trigger - space. Not ctr+space .. just plain space [:

    I almost test 20 ediotrs and non of them reach this aim /:
    Now I'll see this ExpressionWeb2 but I don't want to install .NET framwork. It's quite heavy.

    I'll be enormously obliged to anyone who help me [:

    PS: Beer mugs comming [:

  15. #15
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexW View Post
    Paul, there may be a reasonable reason for DW not directly applying your bolding. The <bold> tag is designed for emphasizing words or phrases within a block of text, but it's not so good for wrapping entire paragraphs.

    Off the top of the head, I'd guess it was creating a new bold CSS class and applying that class to your text. Just a guess.
    Actually Alex, there is no <bold> tag. The element you were probably thinking of was strong, which is used to give a section of inlined content strong emphasis. Of course, there's also the B element, which is used to explicitly make text bold...

    (I know, probably didn't wake up yet, right? Happens to me all the time.)

  16. #16
    SitePoint Member jimbo320's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulalford View Post
    I have DWeaver CS3 but I think its too complicated for me. What other design softwares are out there ? I dont want free... they are to simple, so I dont mind paying, but it needs to be user friendly and WYSIWYG.

    I dont like the DWCS3 because it just does weird things. I can select text and tell it to be bigger, change color, style, etc. and it wont DO it. I cant even copy and paste objects within the same page. Just weird. I am thinking its gotten too complicated and I dont have the time to read and learn how to play nice with it.

    Any other design softwares you would suggest I look at ?

    Thanks

    Paul
    I use Dreamweaver cs3 and it copies and pastes just fine!!

  17. #17
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    lol, why dont u try any wusiwyg editor?
    Last edited by web67; Apr 15, 2008 at 19:47.
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    SitePoint Enthusiast antitoxic's Avatar
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    I will be trully thankful if someone help me. My post above tells it all. Such program would be not only in my interest. Go slicer team, go!

    I have to chage Dreamweaver, it crushes on my laptop also on other PCs, usually with large amount of files opened or even at the moment you change keybord layout.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulalford View Post
    Any other design softwares you would suggest I look at ?

    Thanks

    Paul
    Paul seeing you can write code why not go with a very good editor instead of a complicated program. I have DWcs3 but don't use it either. I even have the videos from Lydia and Total Training, but have not found the time to watch them.

    One of the best text editors I've found is Notepad++ ... it's free and is a VERY professional app.

  20. #20
    Team SitePoint AlexW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Schulz View Post
    Actually Alex, there is no <bold> tag. The element you were probably thinking of was strong, which is used to give a section of inlined content strong emphasis. Of course, there's also the B element, which is used to explicitly make text bold...

    (I know, probably didn't wake up yet, right? Happens to me all the time.)
    True, Dan. Was half way between calling it <b> and the 'bold tag' and kinda did both.
    Alex Walker
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    SitePoint - Learnable

  21. #21
    Team SitePoint AlexW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by web67 View Post
    lol, why dont u try any wusiwyg editor?
    Isn't that like me saying "I'm having trouble with my Hummer" and you replying with "lol, why don't you try any car?"?
    Alex Walker
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  22. #22
    Twitter - @CarlBeckel busy's Avatar
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    @antitoxic - Maybe the results of this poll will help.
    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434213

    Personally I like Eclipse, it can be a little complex but it's also very customizable so maybe you can set it up or find a plugin so it does exactly what you want.

  23. #23
    SitePoint Zealot Michel Merlin's Avatar
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    Notepad++ v4.6 of 17 Nov 2007

    Quote Originally Posted by pt49 View Post
    (Fri 18 Apr 2008 15:29 GMT)
    One of the best text editors I've found is Notepad++ ... it's free and is a VERY professional app.
    I confirm, and in addition I recommend (so far) Notepad++ v4.6 of 17 Nov 2007, see Most reliable version? and scroll down to "Versions that lasted the most" and "Most RELIABLE seems so far Notepad++ 4.6".

    Versailles, Sat 19 Apr 2008 02:33:40 +0200

  24. #24
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    Has anybody tried NVU - open source WSIWYG editor at nvu.org. I've not tried it but I've heard good reports.

    I do most of my work in Homesite+ (an HTML editor that Macromedia bought from Allaire) and use DW mainly for templating and one or two other things that it's particularly good at (eg tables). My styles I do in TopStyle Lite.

    I have both DW4 and DW8 installed on my machine - and use both (I have to keep DW4 because I share development on some sites with a DW4 user).

    My biggest problem with DW4 was that it didn't render styled pages well. DW8 is better.
    ByteHaven www.bytehaven.co.uk
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Enthusiast antitoxic's Avatar
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    @busy Appreciated. I happened to download Aptana Studio yesterday. It is Eclipse based and it's targeted for frontenders (there's a php plugin anyways). Powerful application, indeed. A powerful RAM vaporizer also. In the time Dreamweaver took 11MB (1 file opened) aptana already exceeds a hundred for the same task.
    But I will try to customize Eclipse with only plugins that I need.
    Thanks for the thread !

    @driz NVU and Kompozer are really basic basic basic WSIWYG editors. And nothing else included. I've seen something about extensions but it's been giving me no such page. If that's what you want go for it [:


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