Office hours from a business owner's point of view

[vgarcia]

I can't agree with either of those statements. Time is still a factor even if you don't get paid hourly... and anyway what is salary? It's bi-weekly wage instead of hourly wage.

As for the adults part, this whole "get-off-my-back" routine is a 2-way street. And in my opinion (and experience) you have to earn it... it's not something handed out freely.

I didn't read through the whole thread... but did the OP ever stop to think that maybe the reason his boss was such a d---, was because the boss noticed him surfing the web every afternoon and started to hold it against him? I dunno, just a thought. Maybe if you made better, more productive use of your office time... your boss would be patting you on the back, buying you lunch, and telling you to take more time off - instead of treating you like a school kid. Maybe?

I smell theory Y.

I don't think we'll come to any kind of agreement here. I think there are benefits to not treating your employees like first graders with regard to tardiness. If you don't see that and feel like you need some test for an employee to gain your trust then that's your business to run, that's okay. I'm not going to work for you anytime soon, that's okay too.

[Subwoofer02]

I think it depend on field of firm. But it seems to me that left over hours must to be paid, at least with bonus)

[bboy]

Actually, let me correct myself a bit - It's not the company's expectations. It's the "group's" expectation. We're a department of about 40-50 people and the rest of the company looks at us like we're completely insane for working so much (because they don't have to).

People sitting next to you give you crap every time you attempt to leave on time (whether you have work or not) and that's what's bugging the living s#&&t out of me. Almost like nagging wives (no offense).

Surely this job was here in Japan as I know all too well the hell that you are describing.

[cringer]

I smell theory Y.

I don't think we'll come to any kind of agreement here. I think there are benefits to not treating your employees like first graders with regard to tardiness. If you don't see that and feel like you need some test for an employee to gain your trust then that's your business to run, that's okay. I'm not going to work for you anytime soon, that's okay too.

I don't think we disagree. I think I'm giving the wrong impression.

(and to the other poster, I was not making assumptions. The OP clearly stated that he surfs the web most days after he completes his tasks. And it was the OP who I was addressing - what I said does not necessarily reflect my picture of an ideal working situation.)

Here is what I think. Maybe 10% of workplaces are those utopian type atmospheres we all know about. Then there's maybe another 10% where no matter what you do, you'll be treated like some slave laborer.

The other 80% lie somewhere in the middle and that's where most of us wind up. In those situations, a worker is valued (at least in part) based on their attitude and work ethic. In those situations, make yourself shine and watch how quickly people get off your back, and watch how quickly people give you all the leeway you could ask for in terms of hours, perks or whatever makes you happy. It's because you earned that consideration.

I have good people working for me and we have an extremely laid back atmosphere with lots of freedoms (in fact, I would say it's reasonably close to that utopian 10% I spoke of in my example). We don't have much turn over. Soon I will be hiring a junior programmer. This programmer will sit next to my best guy, who will help him/her get established and learn the way we do things. Hopefully this new person will develop into a valuable member of our team... and will absolutely enjoy the same freedoms and flexibility as the rest of us. But if this new person surfs the web most days because he/she decides they've worked enough that day, rather than take some initiative to keep busy... guaranteed their time here will be short. Why would I send somebody off to the park with a laptop and a cell phone when they don't even work at the office?

So, what I object to is not the freedoms and benefits of a utopian workplace - rather its the attitude of getting something for nothing. Be a good valuable worker, and the "perks" will follow you. I had a guy once (this is true) that I found sleeping at his desk in his second week on the job and I fired him on the spot. OTOH I have a great designer who is responsible and gets her (very good) work done in timely fashion. She can do no wrong here. She can come in as late and leave as early as she wants to any day of the week, she can telecommute as much as she pleases. She also gets regular raises. She gets all this for one simple reason - because we want to keep her. For the most part, just demonstrate that you are valuable and you will be treated as such. That's how you turn an average workplace into one that you really enjoy. And again I think it all boils back down to loving what you do. If you have that, the rest comes easy.

[akmicrokid2003]

Hi Everyone,

I've been following SitePoint for a long time, and I just have to get in on this discussion - very interesting topic in my opinion.

I am the founder and owner of SelfReliant LLC, which is just getting off the ground, but will be focused on Internet-driven educational services. I have not hired anyone yet (aside from myself), but I have already reflected quite a bit about different compensation practices:

-Yearly salaries: These seem to me like the absolute worst idea, although I understand why they were created. A yearly salary says the following to an employee: "Here's a sure deal, you will make this lump sum of money yearly working for us, but you will have no idea how much overtime you'll be working, or the level of commitment that will be required at any given moment." So even though you have to deal with people (maybe) calling you on weekends or asking you to stay late for a crucial project, at least your yearly take-home is both known in advance, and (presumably) pretty substantial.

-Hourly work: Keeping track of hours worked seems like a good idea to me all by itself, but the way in which hourly work is normally implemented has a very fundamental flaw. You are incentivized to "find hours" and inflate the price of the work you're doing. The fixed hourly rate is one of the stupidest business arrangements for this reason. No matter what it is a person is doing, you're being asked as the employer to pay them the same amount of money for every hour they work and record.

For SelfReliant LLC, I've created a end-to-end compensation system for my (future) employees and my own independent contracting projects that provides project- and quality-driven compensation. The compensation system I developed is proprietary, but if you're interested in it, please send me an email at alex_kaufman@msn.com and to send an example project proposal.

Take care,

Alex Kaufman
Owner, SelfReliant LLC
www.SelfReliantLLC.com (under construction)