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  1. #51
    King of Paralysis by Analysis bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulHaz View Post
    Smaller employers can generally be more flexible. In a large organisation, flexibility is a nightmare to manage.
    That's not necessarily true I remember seeing a news report a few years ago (60 minutes perhaps) that detailed all the large companies that gave incredible flexibility to their employees. One didn't even assign them desks, you came and went as necessary and took your laptop with you. If you were coming into the office you would grab an empty cubicle and plug your laptop into that one.

    If you were an office person, you would come in every day if not you came in as needed so long as the work got done.

  2. #52
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by tke71709 View Post
    That's not necessarily true I remember seeing a news report a few years ago (60 minutes perhaps) that detailed all the large companies that gave incredible flexibility to their employees.
    Big companies definitely have the ability to be flexible and since they have more manpower, they can be more flexible at times. The question is whether or not they see the value.

    For an example, see the Best Buy reference I linked to on page 1 of this thread. Best Buy doesn't maintain standard working hours in their corporate office at all. Get it done, go above and beyond and you're good. Whether you want to work at 8am, 10am or go fishing and work at 4pm it's up to you. Flexibility breeds loyalty and drive and some larger companies embrace this very, very well.

    If you were an office person, you would come in every day if not you came in as needed so long as the work got done.
    Great point. We (as web people) are often accustom to flexible work environments but for many people this is not an option. At my current place of employment I was discussing the work from home scenario with a few coworkers and almost all of them expressed how bad that would be. For some people being stuck to a desk is the only way they can keep focused.
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  3. #53
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kabatak View Post
    Unfortunately this kind of like a standard protocol. Employment means trading hours for money. Freelance means trading skills for money. Business ownership means leveraging employees and freelancers for own gain. In the end, business owner wins. So just strive to be a business owner someday. For now, gotta kiss their *** then kick them when you already have enough funds
    Being a salaried employee is pretty much the opposite of "trading hours for money". I don't get more money handed to me when I work a 50 hour week, the company can be flexible when I want to work 35 the next week so I don't feel so burnt out.

    That said, you have a terrible view of employer-employee relations.

  4. #54
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    If you don't like your current employer demanding exact 8 hours a day, then look for a company that will appreciate your skills and will expect results, instead of employees staring blankly at their monitors 95% of the time...

  5. #55
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    I think it has to do with the "old" way of doing things. Most business owners are still living in the 80's (or worse) and have not moved into the world of outsourcing, virtual assistants, and working outside the office with the freedom that laptops and wireless access offer us.

    I know most jobs still require the old 9-5 routine but for graphics designers, marketers, and web developers I don't see why employers are still stuck in the stone age.

  6. #56
    SitePoint Evangelist Scott.Botkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnseoelite View Post
    I think it has to do with the "old" way of doing things. Most business owners are still living in the 80's (or worse) and have not moved into the world of outsourcing, virtual assistants, and working outside the office with the freedom that laptops and wireless access offer us.

    I know most jobs still require the old 9-5 routine but for graphics designers, marketers, and web developers I don't see why employers are still stuck in the stone age.
    I see where you're coming from and I agree but the only problem is if you're being paid by the hour then you can't really let your employees wonder off and work some where outside of the office because you don't know if that they're working or wasting time doing other things. But people like myself who work for themselves I take my laptop every where and work

  7. #57
    SitePoint Guru XraySierra's Avatar
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    For the most part I give my designers completely free rain. I give them a deadline and they are responsible for that meeting that deadline. I don't like tying them to certain times because I want to encourage them to be creative and come up with their own ideas.
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  8. #58
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    Yeah, this is why I do not want to work for others.

  9. #59
    SitePoint Zealot impunjabians's Avatar
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    to me, i can suggest you several tasks you can work on , when you get free from all headaches,

    you can work on the strategies you are using for working ,
    review those and try to refine all.

    you can learn new tool or technology during this time , so that
    you might be more productive and a man with various skills

    if your company has some sort of openness, you can collaborate with
    other depratments like desing and Requirement team, to help them
    or review their strategies too.

    you can write for magazines, blogs, be fourmist, after all you would get
    tagged that you have written this and at ... sitepoint....

    you can develop small applications widget like or tutorials like sitepoint,
    and huge number of sites are offering write for us

  10. #60
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    Anyone with free time in their that they want to done to my project just let me know.
    How To Build An ATM Machine:
    Step 1: Get A Membership Site From http://BuildMeThis.com
    Step 2: Learn Web Site Flipping from the Site Flip King

  11. #61
    Non-Member gunmuse's Avatar
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    I went to straight pay for a project completion years ago with annual bonus based on revenue with a % based on individuals work. Everyone has been happy with that. 50% more work done that year 50% more bonus on company profit share.

  12. #62
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XraySierra View Post
    For the most part I give my designers completely free rain.
    You mean some employers charge for weather? Or do you happen to be Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft? All of their offices are fully stocked with free Talking Rain, a flavored water popular in Washington.

    I think you meant "free rein" (although reign would almost make sense as well, it's not the expression you were going for either).

  13. #63
    SitePoint Addict BlazeMiskulin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia View Post
    Give the employee a laptop or some kind of access from their home computer. Give them a mobile phone. Trust them to respond when needed. Don't waste their time and they won't waste yours.
    That then becomes an "on-call" situation, which brings up a host of other issues. If I, as an employee, am expected to be readily accessible during business hours that I'm not on-premises, that severely limits what I can do with that time. I can't go for a bike ride. I can't go to the mall. I can't catch a matinée. I can't hang out in the park with my kids, etc., etc.

    There are plenty of situations where flexible schedules and/or telecommuting is acceptable--even advantageous--but there are a whole lot of valid reasons for an employer wanting an employee to be on-premises and available during specified hours. It's not just that "They're thinking the old way."
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeMiskulin View Post
    There are plenty of situations where flexible schedules and/or telecommuting is acceptable--even advantageous--but there are a whole lot of valid reasons for an employer wanting an employee to be on-premises and available during specified hours. It's not just that "They're thinking the old way."
    Right... Those specified hours are sometimes referred to as "business hours", a regularly scheduled window of time where most companies are assumed to be open for business and in full operation, during which clientele can visit or call, and have employees on hand to service them and solve their problems.

    I don't quite understand why people are referring to this notion as some kind of stone age mentality. It's still widely accepted - even if you just sit in the back room punching keys all day.

    We have to be open stock market hours where I work. That's every weekday of the year with about 6 or 7 exceptions. Programmers and sys admins have to be on hand to not only keep the place running and new work being pushed out, but to solve problems and put out tech-related fires during the day.

    That said we're still pretty flexible. People wanna come late or leave early it's fine, as long as one respects that you don't just do it all the time, it's the exception not the rule. And everybody's pretty cool about it. We also permit telecommuting but again, within reason.

    To the OP it sounds to me like you just don't like your job. If you enjoyed your work, you wouldn't be staring at the clock all day waiting for the bell to ring.

    And there's a lot of loose and flexible jobs out there that still suck.

    Find a job you like.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia View Post
    Find a company that values results over the amount of time you're in a seat.
    would be a good thing to find such a company but lately most of the companies dont want to pay any benefits and stuff...look at the europe covered with strikes

  16. #66
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeMiskulin View Post
    That then becomes an "on-call" situation, which brings up a host of other issues. If I, as an employee, am expected to be readily accessible during business hours that I'm not on-premises, that severely limits what I can do with that time. I can't go for a bike ride. I can't go to the mall. I can't catch a matinée. I can't hang out in the park with my kids, etc., etc.
    It's not an on-call situation... It's an at work (remotely) situation. Yes you can go for a bike ride. Maybe not for the entire day but a short trip to the coffee shop should be and often is just fine. You probably can't catch a matinée or hang out in the park all day with your kids but hold on a minute...

    YOUR AT WORK FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

    We're talking about more flexible work situations or remote working, not a free pass to a theme park with all expenses paid. Of course you are expected to perform your job during the course of the day. I think Vinnie was suggesting that the employee would be working on a project.... Maybe they're a designer, a coder or an account manager. Whatever their position, they have projects that they will be working on. However, if you need to contact them, they are a phone call or email away.
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  17. #67
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeMiskulin View Post
    That then becomes an "on-call" situation, which brings up a host of other issues. If I, as an employee, am expected to be readily accessible during business hours that I'm not on-premises, that severely limits what I can do with that time. I can't go for a bike ride. I can't go to the mall. I can't catch a matinée. I can't hang out in the park with my kids, etc., etc.
    Why not? Are you expected to be chained to your desk for 9 hours a day just in case someone calls? The park's easy if you have a laptop and cellphone.

    Even at the office I got up and grabbed a soda or went to the bathroom a few times a day, or *gasp* had a doctor's appointment or got a haircut during lunch. People knew where to find me. If you have stuff going on at work and it's busier than usual, you tend to know it and can plan accordingly. When it's not raining projects you have greater freedoms.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlazeMiskulin
    There are plenty of situations where flexible schedules and/or telecommuting is acceptable--even advantageous--but there are a whole lot of valid reasons for an employer wanting an employee to be on-premises and available during specified hours. It's not just that "They're thinking the old way."
    That's fine and there are lots of jobs where physical presence is required. But I'd say a good majority of knowledge work doesn't fall into that.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnseoelite View Post
    for graphics designers, marketers, and web developers I don't see why employers are still stuck in the stone age.
    It all depends how you get paid. Are you simply getting paid for your time?

    Because truthfully... most people left to their own devices will slack off if they can get away with it and it does not affect their personal income. Just a fact.

    If your compensation is heavily incentive or commission based, then nobody should really care how you make your hours.

    Ever work in (or with) a big sales firm where everybody was on commission? I did and believe me that company couldn't care less about personal schedules... why would they? They're paying next to nothing to hold on to you. They just sit back and wait to see how much money you bring to them (of which they'll kindly give you a piece for yourself).

    So go work there, you can come and go as you please - trust me.

    (Just don't have a bad month, as company policy they fired the 2 lowest earners each month)

  19. #69
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cringer View Post
    It all depends how you get paid. Are you simply getting paid for your time?

    Because truthfully... most people left to their own devices will slack off if they can get away with it and it does not affect their personal income. Just a fact.
    A salary means I'm getting paid for more than my time kind of by definition right? I mean if not they could just put me on hourly and I'd punch in and out.

    We're all adults here. If you get a salary to do a job, it doesn't matter how much time it took as long as it gets done. If you want me to punch the clock and have my @ss in a cubicle for 9 hours exactly then pay me hourly and don't BS me.

  20. #70
    I hate Spammers mobyme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cringer View Post
    Because truthfully... most people left to their own devices will slack off if they can get away with it and it does not affect their personal income. Just a fact.
    I don't buy into this at all. Show somebody the trust and respect they deserve as an intelligent adult and they shine. Treat somebody like a moronic wage slave and you get exactly what you deserve. As I've said before, everybody comes and goes as they please here; and when they are out of the office, are available by phone and laptop. I honestly cannot remember a single instance when any member of the team has ever let the rest of us down. As a company we go from strength to strength while our local competitors struggle to hang on to staff which sort of proves my point.
    There are three kinds of men:
    The ones that learn by reading.
    The few who learn by observation.
    The rest of us have to pee on the electric fence.

  21. #71
    SitePoint Enthusiast gtork's Avatar
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    Why bother setting work hours if they won't be enforced. If they said...ah..it's ok, just stroll on in when ever you like.. people would take advantage of that situation and would be coming in later and later... at what point should the co. draw the line. From the start seems reasonable to me...

  22. #72
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtork View Post
    Why bother setting work hours if they won't be enforced. If they said...ah..it's ok, just stroll on in when ever you like.. people would take advantage of that situation and would be coming in later and later... at what point should the co. draw the line. From the start seems reasonable to me...
    While I believe that employers have the right to expect x number hours of work for their payroll dollars, this isn't quite right.

    I've worked in an office situation as an independent contractor. Those people that waltz in and out of the office didn't last long.

    Actually, if employers were more lenient in their employee policies, I believe they'd see less turnover from disgruntled, dissatisfied employees. They would also have a clear view of who the self-starters were and who they weren't, allowing them to cull out the chaff and build an enthusiastic, results oriented team.
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  23. #73
    Web Host fcolor's Avatar
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    I would speak from employee point of view. Anyone who is in management has to deal with the whole team and to make things work fine. I don;t know how big is your company but a manager may not be able to pay attention on anyone's personal affairs. It is fair to go out 1 hour before the end of the business day and on the other day to stay more.

    I'm sure that if your employer is good in HR management they will understand you are important for the company. All you have to do is to do good job and to care about your company.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia View Post
    We're all adults here. If you get a salary to do a job, it doesn't matter how much time it took as long as it gets done.
    I can't agree with either of those statements. Time is still a factor even if you don't get paid hourly... and anyway what is salary? It's bi-weekly wage instead of hourly wage.

    As for the adults part, this whole "get-off-my-back" routine is a 2-way street. And in my opinion (and experience) you have to earn it... it's not something handed out freely.

    I didn't read through the whole thread... but did the OP ever stop to think that maybe the reason his boss was such a d---, was because the boss noticed him surfing the web every afternoon and started to hold it against him? I dunno, just a thought. Maybe if you made better, more productive use of your office time... your boss would be patting you on the back, buying you lunch, and telling you to take more time off - instead of treating you like a school kid. Maybe?

  25. #75
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Stormrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cringer View Post
    did the OP ever stop to think that maybe the reason his boss was such a d---, was because the boss noticed him surfing the web every afternoon and started to hold it against him? I dunno, just a thought. Maybe if you made better, more productive use of your office time... your boss would be patting you on the back, buying you lunch, and telling you to take more time off - instead of treating you like a school kid. Maybe?
    You are making some pretty hefty assumptions there. Why do you assume that he is surfing the net the whole time just because he doesn't want to be watched on his times all the time?

    I think a lot of people in this thread & their responses are testament to the fact that a strict environment isn't required to get productivity, and I would agree. My company is very good with the work/life balance, because it is important for morale, and therefore affects productivity of the employees. Just stating that it won't work, without any evidence or experience to back this up (and when it is quite clearly wrong, as demonstrated by several posters in this thread who work in that type of environment) isn't any kind of proof of your points.


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