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  1. #26
    Texan at Heart Corey Bryant's Avatar
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    Usually doing business with a friend is problematic.

    The price was probably fair, and you were doing him a favor. It was your first freelance job and it looks like a really great price for your friend. You are learning as you go along. You charged what you thought your time was worth. Your friend should appreciate that as well.

    If there is not a clause in the contract that it (the CMS) can be licensed to others, you might consider that as well.

  2. #27
    SitePoint Addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refreshweb View Post
    Hmmm - I'm seeing a lot of web developers using these tools lately and it kinda bothers me. Fair enough if you're a kid running your own blog or whatever, but commercial software developers should no be using these products - period.

    Mambo installs itself on a plesk server at the push of a button - and a template can be implemented for twenty bucks... if that's what clients wanted, why would they bother to pay us thousands of dollars? Its a one-size-fits-all comprimise.

    Reselling an open source CMS is no different (IMO) to reselling templates from Monster Template... with the possible exception that you're client's site mightn't get turned into a billboard for the Taliban or a Viagra Catalogue or a Paypal Phishing Hole, if you're simply reselling templates... I can't make the same promise for open source CMSs. And god help you if your client needs something customised. If a developer can't even write their own application how do they expect to be able to effectively rebuild someone elses?
    I agree with you partially. However I successfully run a business largely on customising Joomla for 5-figure costs. Of course this includes a unique graphic design turned into a unique template from a professional graphic designer, uniquely developed SEO structure. And about 50% of the time is spent on actually consulting on the content structure and all the custom modules that need to be written for each project.

    The interesting thing is that I've actually written a CRUD toolkit myself from scratch and the technology structure you end up underneath is always the same, Joomla, Ruby on Rails, symfony or whatever you choose.

    Thats why it makes sense to customise a well developed CMS with a large community support. Customers also value that I can prove that someone can pick up the maintenance when I get run over by a bus and that the source code can't be taken from them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Refreshweb View Post
    ...And pity the developer who does heavily customise an OS CMS. They're screwed the next time a major security update is released - I don't fancy the prospect of spending the next 3 years retrofitting every site I ever laid eyes on... at my your own expense.

    If I wanted to mindlessly resell one-size-fits-all products to misguided clients I'd work at a Best`n`Less.
    Security updates are a piece of cake with SVN and vendor branches.

    HTH, Jochen
    http://www.automatem.co.nz
    Websites, On-line Software and everything Internet
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  3. #28
    SitePoint Enthusiast mr_nabo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refreshweb View Post
    commercial software developers should no be using these products - period....If a developer can't even write their own application how do they expect to be able to effectively rebuild someone elses?

    ...And pity the developer who does heavily customise an OS CMS. They're screwed the next time a major security update is released - I don't fancy the prospect of spending the next 3 years retrofitting every site I ever laid eyes on... at my your own expense.
    You've just scared me. I've been struggling to get to grips with coding, but I'm really not a hardcore coder at heart. I can tweak, make basic applications and have put together a very simple login system using PHP, but the thought of building a fully-fledged CMS from scratch - something that could compete with Joomla/Drupal/Wordpress etc. is beyond me.

    And this is why I resort to OS CMSs - plus the supportive community and add-ons make life easier. I understand that is a false sense of security, but with my level of coding it means I can't build add-ons easily, and outsourcing the work would mean I'd be in the same situation as with an OS CMS - relying on other people's code and having limited capability to change/modify it.

    So far, I've had no problems, but I've mainly done small sites and am a freelance who does all by myself. I completely understand the insane prospect of revisiting sites to update the security flaws...

    My only comment about updating sites using heavily-customized OS CMSs is that modifying only the template and adding modules as opposed to hacking the core makes life easier.

  4. #29
    SitePoint Member
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    When I started building websites 12-odd years ago - I didn't know html. I was a designer, not a coder. I'd use hot-dog and dreamweaver and other point-n-click WYSIWYG editors to build my sites. Before long, however, I picked up html and started to find it easier to work in code... and life got better .

    Just because you aren't yet good at something shouldn't justify not learning. If you want the best for your business and clients, don't be a script kiddie .

  5. #30
    SitePoint Zealot maadmac's Avatar
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    @Goalie35 - Send your friend to our pricing page and that should make him feel better - http://onwired.com/how-much-will-it-cost/

    I think $7k for a custom CMS is very low. Did that include any design work as well?
    Regards,
    Tony Chester,
    http://www.onwired.com
    "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?!?

  6. #31
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refreshweb View Post
    PS: I would never suggest selling a client an Open Source CMS… its just asking for big, big trouble.
    That's an insane comment. I make a very good living out of selling clients an open source CMS. They know what they're getting and they are very happy. The benefits are boundless, not least that they're *not* tied to me.


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