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  1. #1
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    MSFT: "IE 8 Passes ACID2". WaSP: "ACID 3 Is released!".. Ironic!

    As soon as I read that ACID3 was released yesterday the first anaology I thought of was:

    You work extra hard save up your money for months, and buy a new laptop.. 30 days later, a new model comes out cheaper and better. Ouch.

    The IE team surely had a lot of work under their belt for passing ACID2, and what sort of seems very ironic ACID3 is out the door. I wonder now, because surely with the heat IE will be putting on Firefox/Opera/Safari (Win) with it being up-to-par with standards, the Firefox/Opera/Safari trio will most likely be gunning for more, which is the things ACID3 has in it's offerings.

    That said, I wonder now.. will the IE team go in for another battle and come out basically above everyone and adopt some of ACID3's highlights into it's engine, or will they just take a big huff and say to themselves "ACID3 = IE9".

    Taking into consideration that of course the ACID test is not the end all/be all, what are your thoughts/opinions?

  2. #2
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanielB View Post
    As soon as I read that ACID3 was released yesterday the first anaology I thought of was:

    You work extra hard save up your money for months, and buy a new laptop.. 30 days later, a new model comes out cheaper and better. Ouch.
    Acid3 tests different areas than Acid2 does.

    surely with the heat IE will be putting on Firefox/Opera/Safari (Win) with it being up-to-par with standards
    IE is not putting any heat on those browsers. IE is the one feeling all the heat. But no one knows how well IE8 is with standards until we see the Beta released, at least. Microsoft's statement the other day is that it will do the best it can. That doesn't sound very encouraging.

  4. #4
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    stymiee: It does pass the ACID2 test, it wouldn't if it was not in standards operating mode however, and because it technically wouldn't render in standards mode without a flag it technically didn't pass ACID2 out the door. Never the less, that is not 110% not the case anymore since Microsoft said standards operating mode no longer needs a flag.

    stymiee/drhowarddrfine: Of course ACID3 is testing different things then ACID2. My analogy I figure was a bit off in terms of scenario-comparison, sure.

    When I say putting on the heat, I mean they could take the upper-hand and be on top of the game instead of just on par with it if they bother to try and pass the ACID3 test now, before anyone else.

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    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanielB View Post
    When I say putting on the heat, I mean they could take the upper-hand and be on top of the game instead of just on par with it if they bother to try and pass the ACID3 test now, before anyone else.
    For IE8, or even IE9, to pass Acid3, they would first have to start implementing much more CSS3 than they do now but they would also have to:
    1) Improve DOM support. Something they have done nothing with since 1998.
    2) Add XHTML support of which they have none right now and IE8 will not either.
    3) Add SVG which they do not have now.
    4) Improve Javascript support which is not up to par.

    And those not insignificant things are just off the top of my head.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee View Post

    See MSDN. the linked to post is redundant now and it should pass Acid 2, n'est pas?
    Last edited by TheOriginalH; Mar 5, 2008 at 07:19.
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanielB View Post
    stymiee: It does pass the ACID2 test, it wouldn't if it was not in standards operating mode however, and because it technically wouldn't render in standards mode without a flag it technically didn't pass ACID2 out the door. Never the less, that is not 110% not the case anymore since Microsoft said standards operating mode no longer needs a flag.

    stymiee/drhowarddrfine: Of course ACID3 is testing different things then ACID2. My analogy I figure was a bit off in terms of scenario-comparison, sure.

    When I say putting on the heat, I mean they could take the upper-hand and be on top of the game instead of just on par with it if they bother to try and pass the ACID3 test now, before anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalH View Post
    See MSDN. the linked to post is redundant now and it should pass Acid 2, n'est pas?
    I'm not saying it doesn't pass the Acid 2 test. I just linked to the two discussions we already had about this same topic in an attempt to avoid a new thread covering the same thing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
    For IE8, or even IE9, to pass Acid3, they would first have to start implementing much more CSS3 than they do now but they would also have to:
    1) Improve DOM support. Something they have done nothing with since 1998.
    2) Add XHTML support of which they have none right now and IE8 will not either.
    3) Add SVG which they do not have now.
    4) Improve Javascript support which is not up to par.

    And those not insignificant things are just off the top of my head.
    Well that's really what this thread is about.. do you think they'll put effort into those and other needed components now that the spotlight is on them?


    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee View Post
    I'm not saying it doesn't pass the Acid 2 test. I just linked to the two discussions we already had about this same topic in an attempt to avoid a new thread covering the same thing.
    No worries, cheers

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanielB View Post
    do you think they'll put effort into those and other needed components now that the spotlight is on them?
    I was just reading something from them an hour ago. IE8 will have some improvements in the DOM, javascript and CSS. It will run SVG, XUL(!!) and MathML, but only through ActiveX controls that must be pre-installed by the user. I don't remember the whole thing right now as I'm heading out the door.

    Man, if they're going to run XUL, then I might start picking that back up again. Right now, it only runs on Gecko/Mozilla based browsers, I think, so I wasn't spending a lot of time with it. Now I might have an incentive if notifying the user they must install XUL ActiveX control isn't a hassle. Of course, it is ActiveX so I don't know how I feel about that either.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    More information about IE8s ability to run SVG, XUL and MathML. Apparently IE8 will NOT run them on their own and Microsoft has not indicated any plans to do so. However, it is POSSIBLE to do so if some other 3rd party were to write such an ActiveX control. This ActiveX control does not exist now and Microsoft has not indicated they are writing one or are willing to write one.

  11. #11
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    This is why I <3 webkit

    (this is last night's build btw, #30790)

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    I had heard the nightly builds only achieved 80-90 for Safari and Firefox. It's good to see Safari passes.

    btw, I only get to use Safari on Windows occasionally and really like it.

  13. #13
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    Typical - anything that I like to use fails miserably.

    I used to like IE7 - some things have put me off it, and after a disasterous IE8 beta which removed IE7, replacing it with a practically faulty (crawls, scrolling is crazy and the URL bar highlighting is just plain annoying) browser.

    I'm also an Opera fan - I'm using it right now. I started using it thanks to a thread from an "opera virgin", where I checked it out and I think it's fantastic (especially with the skin I have on it - O_Simple).

    Of course, now I'm really getting used to it and I see that it is HOPELESS at the Acid3 test (gets to 46, and the animation is just bad).

    Anyone know if it's due to have an rendering upgrade soon? I really don't want to change browser again...
    Jake Arkinstall
    "Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel;
    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy bigalreturns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    Anyone know if it's due to have an rendering upgrade soon? I really don't want to change browser again...
    I wouldn't change browser based on the results of an Acidx test, because:
    1) The vast majority of sites don't use the features that the major browsers fail on.
    2) The current major browsers all have inadequacies, as any half decent developer knows, so sites are made that pander to the idiosyncracies of the majority. Well, OK, sites are made that pander to the idiosyncracies of IE!

    Basically no matter what browser you use, 99% of sites around will be rendered in an equifunctional way, so pick the browser you use most efficiently, and find most pleasant to use.

    Off Topic:

    I'm an Opera one-time user, but never adopted because it just wasn't pretty enough for me! Shameful I know. The "Opera Virgin" thread did come up with a lot of advantages to it though, so it may be time to give it another shot.
    "The proper function of man is to live - not to exist."
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  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy bigalreturns's Avatar
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    Acid3 scores for a lot of browsers in a post here - IE5.5 beats IE7!
    "The proper function of man is to live - not to exist."
    Get a Free TomTom


  16. #16
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    I'm an Opera one-time user, but never adopted because it just wasn't pretty enough for me!
    There are many skins available for it, if you're on about pretty in a GUI sense. My favorite is O'Simple 1.1 in blue.

    It looks like the theme is based on O2 (the mobile phone network) - similar colour scheme and icon glow.
    Jake Arkinstall
    "Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel;
    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    iirc, the next version of Opera either passes Acid3 or scores 80-90.


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