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  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot jvr's Avatar
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    PR Going Down???

    Hello,
    I just want to ask, Is there any chance that your PR may go down? Let's say your page rank is 7, then you stop making SEO stuff on that page. Will the PR on that page will go down?? or it will stay in that way?
    Thanks...

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy DaveWoods's Avatar
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    PR = quality backlinks.

    Therefore you'd usually have to either lose backlinks or the quality of those links be reduced due to activities out of your control (more links added to pages which reduces the amount of PR distributed or links that were once on a high PR page moving to a subsection with lower PR for example).

    There's also penalties for other things (selling links is the one that springs to mind) which can see PR reduced and everything has a knock on effect.

    But as is often spoken about here... it isn't PR that you should be chasing

  3. #3
    SitePoint Zealot jvr's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick reply, So, if I just do nothing on my site after having a PR of 7, (example only) my PR will go down, is that right? But honestly, I'm not after it, just curious...

  4. #4
    Object Not Found junjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvr View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply, So, if I just do nothing on my site after having a PR of 7, (example only) my PR will go down, is that right?
    No, PR is a product of your quality backlinks, so even if you stop working on your site, it's possible that the PR will stay the same.

  5. #5
    Google Zombie ssandecki's Avatar
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    Pagerank is dependant on your backlinks, as long as your building backlinks and not losing your "quality" backlinks that are providing the most so called PR juice you shouldn't worry to much about it.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy bigalreturns's Avatar
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    Not entirely true - your PR can quite easily go down without you losing any links. This is because toolbar PR is expressed as a log value of the highest PR page's PR. I'll make an example to try and make this clear:
    Page x has 1000 links, giving it 100 "Real PR" units.
    Page y has 20,000 links, giving it 10,000 "Real PR" units.
    Page y is the highest PR page in our index, so is given toolbar PR10.
    Page x is given toolbar PR based on a log scale - it is 2 orders of magnitude lower than page y in terms of real PR, so is given a toolbar PR of 2 less, i.e. PR8.
    ...
    3 months later, and both sites have been working on link building...
    Page x now has 2000 links, giving it 200 real PR units
    Page y now has 200,000 links, giving it 200,000 real PR units.
    Using our same calculation as before, Page y gets toolbar PR10. Page x is now 3 orders of magnitude lower real PR, so is given PR7.
    So, despite doubling the amount of real PR it has, page x has still gone down one point on the toolbar PR scale.

    Obviously this is a simplified example, but it illustrates the point that toolbar PR is not only dependent on your own page's performance, but on the performance of every other page in Google's index! Another reason to add to the list of why PR is useless for evaluating pages!
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  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy DaveWoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvr View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply, So, if I just do nothing on my site after having a PR of 7, (example only) my PR will go down, is that right? But honestly, I'm not after it, just curious...
    It depends on the type of content. Take the following examples.

    1 - You have a news page. You get lots of backlinks which generate a PR7 and don't develop the page any further. Initially you'd probably find that the PR maintains itself as the information is current and topical but over time people will start removing links as the information is no longer relevant, you start losing quality backlinks and as a result your PR would suffer.

    2 - You also run a site which contains information. One of your pages has an indepth article about learning to ride a bike. This page will be relevant and informative and doesn't depend on time scales and becomes the leading source of information for learning to ride a bike. The page quickly gains a PR7 so again, you decide not to develop the page further. However, because there's no time limit on the page and the information will always be useful, people leave links in place whilst at the same time more links are generated from people finding your page useful.

    As you can see, two completely different scenario's but one is likely yo result in PR decreasing whilst the other is likely to increase.

    There's no set method to search engine optimization but if you think like other website owners and users of your site along with how they may act then it can give you a good idea of what is likely to happen.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Zealot jvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigalreturns View Post
    Not entirely true - your PR can quite easily go down without you losing any links. This is because toolbar PR is expressed as a log value of the highest PR page's PR. I'll make an example to try and make this clear:
    Page x has 1000 links, giving it 100 "Real PR" units.
    Page y has 20,000 links, giving it 10,000 "Real PR" units.
    Page y is the highest PR page in our index, so is given toolbar PR10.
    Page x is given toolbar PR based on a log scale - it is 2 orders of magnitude lower than page y in terms of real PR, so is given a toolbar PR of 2 less, i.e. PR8.
    ...
    3 months later, and both sites have been working on link building...
    Page x now has 2000 links, giving it 200 real PR units
    Page y now has 200,000 links, giving it 200,000 real PR units.
    Using our same calculation as before, Page y gets toolbar PR10. Page x is now 3 orders of magnitude lower real PR, so is given PR7.
    So, despite doubling the amount of real PR it has, page x has still gone down one point on the toolbar PR scale.

    Obviously this is a simplified example, but it illustrates the point that toolbar PR is not only dependent on your own page's performance, but on the performance of every other page in Google's index! Another reason to add to the list of why PR is useless for evaluating pages!
    So, at the very beginning, PR is useless.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy DaveWoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvr View Post
    So, at the very beginning, PR is useless.
    PR isn't all that important anyway

  10. #10
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Your PR can go down simply by new pages being added to the Google's index.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Zealot jvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee View Post
    Your PR can go down simply by new pages being added to the Google's index.
    Can you explain it more???

  12. #12
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    I think it is always changing so you have to keep adding to site and links to keep Pr and serp

  13. #13
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    Who knows. But you should keep your site updated for the spiders anyway.

    Right?

  14. #14
    phpLD Fanatic bronze trophy dvduval's Avatar
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    What hasn't been mentioned is the number of pages on the web is constantly increasing. Since a larger percentage of pages will have a lower pagerank, doing nothing over time will generally lead to a lower pagerank, because the requirements to make it to the higher pageranks become higher over time.

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    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvr View Post
    Can you explain it more???
    He explained it well:

    Quote Originally Posted by dvduval View Post
    What hasn't been mentioned is the number of pages on the web is constantly increasing. Since a larger percentage of pages will have a lower pagerank, doing nothing over time will generally lead to a lower pagerank, because the requirements to make it to the higher pageranks become higher over time.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Addict Hafsoh's Avatar
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    Serious reduction in inbound link strength could make Pr drop, i think stopping making SEO on the page is possible that the PR will remain the same.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by junjun View Post
    No, PR is a product of your quality backlinks, so even if you stop working on your site, it's possible that the PR will stay the same.
    Yes it would remain the same provided the backlinks remain. If at all the backlinks disappear especially the much volatile links, then the PR might come down..So it's necessary that the Backlinks are tracked on a regular basis.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Zealot jvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nileshmishra View Post
    Yes it would remain the same provided the backlinks remain. If at all the backlinks disappear especially the much volatile links, then the PR might come down..So it's necessary that the Backlinks are tracked on a regular basis.
    So, as long as the backlinks remain, so as your PR. But if you are aiming traffic to your sites, don't stop optimizing your site...

  19. #19
    SitePoint Enthusiast flamenco-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvduval View Post
    What hasn't been mentioned is the number of pages on the web is constantly increasing. Since a larger percentage of pages will have a lower pagerank, doing nothing over time will generally lead to a lower pagerank, because the requirements to make it to the higher pageranks become higher over time.
    This doesn't necessarily follow. While it may be true that an increase in the number of lower PR sites proportionately will lower average PR across the board, the formulae for a particular site's PR ranking should remain independant of this.

    Also don't forget that Google changes its ranking algorithm from time to time in any case, and this probably has much more to do with the performance of a particular site than the total number of sites indexed at any one time.

  20. #20
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    It is true Flamenco.

    PageRank is a relative measure, relative to all other pages on the Internet. Ergo, as average index size increases, unless your incoming link weight increases in direct relation to the increase in index size, your PR will drop.

    Back when Google would actually release PR data in a timely way you could see a global drop when Google achieved large index size increases.

    Also if you understand the somewhat complicated math of the PR formula, knowing what a normalized sum is, then it is rather obvious why this happens.

    Google keeps running the PR calculation until the average of all pages is 1, ergo, the more pages in the index, the more iterations of the algorithm, and each iteration results in a net loss of weigh through the dampening factor.

    That all being said. PageRank as a stand alone metric is meaningless. It is only relevant when it is being compared to your competitors. A PR 6 tech site might be average, a PR 4 knitting site might be the #1 knitting site on the Internet.

    So even when there is global down shifts due to index size changes, it doesn't actually mean your rank drops, because everyone gets downshifted, and your relatively strenght (or weakness) compared to your competitors should stay constant.
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  21. #21
    SitePoint Wizard Jun Valasek's Avatar
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    You should always monitor your links and their quality to maintain or increase your PR...

  22. #22
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    Pagerank is as fluent as google’s updates. I would not worry about it too much if you get good traffic to your site. To me, traffic is key
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvr View Post
    Can you explain it more???


    As more pages are added to the Google’s index, your PR goes down unless you can add enough links to offset the index growth. I had several sites with PR 6 four years ago, and all of them are 4 and 5 now, even though I have thousands of back links added meanwhile.

  24. #24
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    Guys,
    Why are we all obsessed with PR - do your visitors become less if your PR goes down or up! Ultimately what matters is your Content and the people who read it !
    When was the last time you went to a Site purely because it is PR 9 ?

    This Page Rank thing is so over-rated & we spend lots of time discussing it!

  25. #25
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    as i know PR is changing all the time .. .al depend on quality back links their numbers and back link sites PR


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