SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 65
  1. #26
    SitePoint Wizard mcsolas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hermosa Costa Rica
    Posts
    1,707
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by tahirjadoon View Post
    I have read thorugh all the replies. I don't understand one thing:

    Why content is being put under "web designer or web developer" roles?

    Aren't copy writing and "web designer/developer" different roles?
    In a perfect world, every client would provide the full text content for each page in the site beforehand. It would sure make the graphic designers life a lot simpler.

    However, given that we live in the real world filled with lazy/busy clients. Or in my case - I often know more about what the clients are trying to sell than they do .. I end up writing a lot of the copy.

    I charge for this service, and let them know ahead of time. Given how often this creeps up, Ive learned to expect this with certain types of clients and build that into the pricing I quote them. A lot of people consider writing text copy to be work ( it is ) and thus, don't mind handing it off the an experienced writer.

  2. #27
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    97
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Talking

    Thanks pgo. now i am gonna try to follow the instruction even though i never know about W3C...

    i just know about html php css...

    any suggestion, please...

  3. #28
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia, United States
    Posts
    4,194
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    The process of making every part of the site work as a whole is design.

  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard mcsolas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hermosa Costa Rica
    Posts
    1,707
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oddz View Post
    Design is everything. Its not just making things look nice – its all logic and practices that go into creating the end result. This includes the copy, code, graphics, etc. The entire process is called the design. It can be divided up into several job but, everyone is designing regardless of whether its the graphics or copy – it all has to function as a whole. Making everything function as a whole is design.
    Very nicely put. I look at it this way as well and clients respond in a positive manner to this line of thinking.

    edit - whoops looks like I quoted your edited post.

  5. #30
    Non-Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kolkata, India
    Posts
    107
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It is very easy to evaluate good designer and bad designer. Moreover it is upto the viewers or evaluator's point of view how he or she looks the site. There are some designs which I like the most but others cant. But when it is a question of professionalism, one should compromise. A professional designer always uses latest techniques, latest versions and latest trends in designing...

  6. #31
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you are about to start up a business, then I would suggest doing a design course. I think you need a bit more of an appreciation for that side of website development.

    Those “flashy designs” are what really attract the clients and set you far above the competition.
    www.sour.co.nz
    Logo Design

  7. #32
    Design and Promotion Crimson77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    331
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I haven't taken the time to read through everyone's comments on this one.
    But I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

    Design should be about purpose. Things should be designed to fit a need.

    In industrial design it's about creating items that do the job while having an ease of use.

    In graphic design, we talk more about communicating a message.

    Web Design should combine message, ease of use and functionality.

    A good designer, works towards fulfilling a purpose in the most effective manner.

    A bad designer only cares about the aesthetic. A bad designer doesn't meet or attempt to meet the purpose.

    A designer can also be bad by not looking at all purposes. If a design functions well, but doesn't communicate a brand message, then the designer has failed. If a design communicates message at the loss of functionality, then the design has also failed.

    So how to judge a good designer from a bad?

    Get them to explain pervious work. Don't let them talk in design jargon. but make them explain a design in practical terms.

    Each element on a page should have purpose. The purpose might only be a small part adding to a whole. But each element should have a reason to exist. "Because it looks good" is not a reason.

    Design is not as subjective as people believe. By combining purpose, audience and testing, design can be a very objective.

    The sign of a great designer is the ability to identify with and audience and therefore get the communication of purpose right the first time.

  8. #33
    Brevity is greatly overrated brandaggio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,424
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In NYC, a web designer is someone who knows Photoshop expertly and can crack out fully realized, rich comps with speed - these people tend to have formal graphics arts education and can and often do real print work, for major brands, in addition to knowing Adobe's tools very well.

    A front-end designer would be someone who uses CSS to take the comps and make skins for them (and possibly some markup). A front-end developer would write the CSS for the comp/s and the base markup for the site/template and possibly write/apply some .js/AJAX effect/functionality.

    It's great to know CSS and HTML well, no doubt, but being fluent in the ways of Photoshop and Illustrator buys a lot too. Plus you need both skills in full to pull off an excellent site.

  9. #34
    SitePoint Guru rageh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    London, Formerly Somalia
    Posts
    612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by brandaggio View Post
    A front-end designer would be someone who uses CSS to take the comps and make skins for them (and possibly some markup). A front-end developer would write the CSS for the comp/s and the base markup for the site/template and possibly write/apply some .js/AJAX effect/functionality.
    But that is the same. What you have described up there is self-same.
    ------------------

  10. #35
    SitePoint Addict tauperkin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sour View Post
    If you are about to start up a business, then I would suggest doing a design course. I think you need a bit more of an appreciation for that side of website development.

    Those “flashy designs” are what really attract the clients and set you far above the competition.
    I DO have an appreciation for design. Layout and color are extremely important.

    As for "flashy designs"--I disagree. Maybe clients are attracted to such eye candy, but that doesn't mean that it's appropriate for their site. Using Flash or Javascript just because you know how and can doesn't mean it is a good idea. Knowing the things to use, I think, is part of the whole process.

    Flashy doesn't set you above the competition. Results and utility do, in my opinion.

  11. #36
    Designer
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Manila
    Posts
    590
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Good designers "think".

    Bad designers "shout".

    Great designers "think out loud".

  12. #37
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Florida USA
    Posts
    5,774
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by XLCowBoy View Post
    Good designers "think".

    Bad designers "shout".

    Great designers "think out loud".
    Very nicely put
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  13. #38
    SitePoint Addict tauperkin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nice XLCowboy. Very nice!

  14. #39
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia, United States
    Posts
    4,194
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Following the trends is not what makes great design. if this was true then all the swoosh logos out there would be award winners. I think to a certain extent you always must consider the trends but, going against them is what makes design stand out from the competition and unique and memorable. Its finding clients that will allow you to do this the challenging part. Everyone is content with what works best because its safe but, its those designers and companies that allow their design team to do something completely different really that get the pay-off. off course, the end solution should still fullfill the objective but, to do that it doesn't need to look like everything else and companies that value designers know that and thats what makes their image stick.

  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard mcsolas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hermosa Costa Rica
    Posts
    1,707
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rageh View Post
    But that is the same. What you have described up there is self-same.
    No, its not.

    There is a reason that person used the term 'designer' and 'developer' separately in that post you quoted. If your going to play with ajax, before long your going to collide with the fact that you cant do much without a server side language.

    There are some incredibly talented css 'designers' out there that couldn't 'develop' their way out of a shoebox. By the way - more power to them - thats perfectly fine to specialize. There is a lot to know when designing sophisticated tableless layouts. There is also a lot to know when attaching those designs to ajax controls and loading dynamic queries through them. In many cases (especially the larger outfits), separate people/teams handle these roles.

  16. #41
    SitePoint Guru rageh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    London, Formerly Somalia
    Posts
    612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mcsolas View Post
    No, its not.

    There is a reason that person used the term 'designer' and 'developer' separately in that post you quoted. If your going to play with ajax, before long your going to collide with the fact that you cant do much without a server side language.

    There are some incredibly talented css 'designers' out there that couldn't 'develop' their way out of a shoebox. By the way - more power to them - thats perfectly fine to specialize. There is a lot to know when designing sophisticated tableless layouts. There is also a lot to know when attaching those designs to ajax controls and loading dynamic queries through them. In many cases (especially the larger outfits), separate people/teams handle these roles.
    I am not arguing about the difference between web designer and web developer. Far from it. I was just pointing out that the way you distinguished between the two was not clear-cut enough. You gave a description painting a similar picture when it comes to web design and web development.

    I would have liked much wider differentiation between the two. For example, web designer designs the site in photoshop and gives the graphics to the web developer who makes it a live site using of course XHTML/CSS and some JavaScript if needed. Well, I know people multi-task and thus developer becomes a designer and the vice versa. But the point is, roles are roles irrespective of how much people multi-task.
    ------------------

  17. #42
    SitePoint Wizard mcsolas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hermosa Costa Rica
    Posts
    1,707
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rageh View Post
    I am not arguing about the difference between web designer and web developer. Far from it. I was just pointing out that the way you distinguished between the two was not clear-cut enough. You gave a description painting a similar picture when it comes to web design and web development.
    (again) Seriously.. Why did you refer to other poster as me? I didn't make that statement. Not to mention, I just drew a very clear line between what I consider a designer and a developer to be.

    You seem to be very confused. You sure your in the right forum?

  18. #43
    SitePoint Guru rageh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    London, Formerly Somalia
    Posts
    612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mcsolas View Post
    (again) Seriously.. Why did you refer to other poster as me? I didn't make that statement. Not to mention, I just drew a very clear line between what I consider a designer and a developer to be.

    You seem to be very confused. You sure your in the right forum?
    If you look up there, It was brandaggio who I quoted first. Then you quoted me and trying to disprove what I said in regard to what brandaggio. had said before you. So it was only right that I quoted you back and said what I said. And I merely explained again that the description of web designer and developer given earlier by brandaggio was the same. I said nothing else.

    You tried to disagree with me and I quoted you for that reason and explained my thoughts again.

    I know what forum I am in. No need for you to go that level.
    ------------------

  19. #44
    SitePoint Guru
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    617
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Encouraging, you find all the answers here.
    fash

  20. #45
    SitePoint Evangelist
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    542
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedreamer View Post
    I was intrigued by your main line of thought and reckon you might be placing too much emphasis on the wrong things, so with my freelancers head on here's my way of thinking...

    (snip)
    Bah....in a perfect world a good independent businessman doesn't have to deal with all that bloat....I wish we can just be superstars by doing one thing and doing it really well

  21. #46
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I feel the difference between a "good" web designer and a "bad" web designer is the mode of thought during the process. To me, it seems like the bad web designers thinks html is purely presentational i.e. get the results. The good designer thinks html as mark up for content.

    The real difference is the way they work with the Internet. Essentially the internet is content, the good web designers get comfortable in this mode of thought. The bad web designers are ignorant of the Internet's essence. Not to say they don't understand the internet is essentially content, but ignorant towards the fact they have to work with it like initially standardized, with purely markup for content. No tables, inline styles, html attributes on content. Making the content out-weigh the html by leaps and bounds, leaving the content readily available. Not clogged down tables and waste of bandwidth spacer images.

    My point:

    Bad Web Designer: An artist ignorant of his/her medium.
    Good Web Designer: An artist aware and passionate about his/her medium.
    Quark. . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Billions, and Billions
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  22. #47
    SitePoint Enthusiast i.innovate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    www.logoflux.com
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was going to quote first message only, but I thinkthis applies to all:

    you can never judge one potential by checking out one or two of his projects.

    IT ALL ABOUT BUDGET.

    Supoose X is ready to design xHTML and all VALIDATED, CSS driven , SEO ready website $Y,

    But clients is not ready to pay that ammount, He has Cheap options (y/4), He will not even try to get in touch with you if you Market that high price.

    So you will show a low price(on your website or marketing material),

    Now do you think its possible to explain it to client, that if he agrees to pay Four times the price you offered on your website, he can have some great INVISIBLE stuff.
    VIVSIN | NatGeo for WebMasters Visit : My Web Development Blog
    VIV SINGH | That's Just Me Visit : My Personal Blog
    10 Must have Firefox plugins for WebMasters
    Some LIFESAVER plugins for Wordpress

  23. #48
    SitePoint Enthusiast i.innovate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    www.logoflux.com
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jainmanoj123 View Post
    It is very easy to evaluate good designer and bad designer. Moreover it is upto the viewers or evaluator's point of view how he or she looks the site. There are some designs which I like the most but others cant. But when it is a question of professionalism, one should compromise. A professional designer always uses latest techniques, latest versions and latest trends in designing...
    I Disagree.

    A Great design is always Great for EVERYONE ( or atleast GOOD ) but never BAD


    AND

    I dont think we will ever have SOME FIXED TRENDS ( which you can name as LATEST or OLD ) in this industry.
    VIVSIN | NatGeo for WebMasters Visit : My Web Development Blog
    VIV SINGH | That's Just Me Visit : My Personal Blog
    10 Must have Firefox plugins for WebMasters
    Some LIFESAVER plugins for Wordpress

  24. #49
    SitePoint Addict tauperkin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    210
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I read through a book called How to Start a Home-Based Web Design Business just recently. The book is in its third edition. The previous editions got crappy reviews but it sounded like the author may have updated the book enough that it was better.

    However...this author is one of those people I would label as a bad designer. If you read the book, it sounds like, for the most part, he knows what he's talking about.

    But then...I checked out his website. Then I looked at his portfolio.

    Oh man! They are really amateur looking. And someone is paying him to do these. I'm not trying to be mean but jeez...

    Examples? The site he lists at the top of his portfolio is candlequencher dot com. You can follow his link if you're curious about the others. Some are a tad better, but not much.

    I guess web design/development is just like any other business: there are good ones and bad ones. But I think it is helpful having an idea of best and worst practices. Certainly some of the things we've listed in this post could be added to and you might have a good guideline.

  25. #50
    SitePoint Enthusiast devAngel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    68
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    a friend of mine told me that a good designer creates his designs from scratch, a great designer copies the design of the good designer but alters it by his own taste, a bad designer is simply someone who wants to make profit on both designs which he did not create and makes it his own...

    i agree on the earlier posts, some designers do not care about the content anymore.

    I agree, copywriting is different from web designer/developer fields
    sig space open...


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •