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  1. #1
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    Interesting thought on apple.

    As we all know people are starting to get very unsatisfied with Microsoft's latest attempt at an OS.

    Which leads me to think that if Apple released a version of OS X that could replace windows on a basic PC a lot of people would start using it more.

    BUT this could also have a negative effect such as:
    - Not many people buying Apple Hardware
    - More viruses and spyware developed for Mac OS systems since it used more widely.

    Their latest moved released Safari for windows which is starting to get them more exposure on windows based machines. I would think its an attempt to bring users over from windows to Mac OS.

  2. #2
    ¬.¬ shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    I'm happy where I am, Windows Vista is not that bad as some make it out to be. Those who complain is because lack of compatible hardware at the moment. But that is not Microsoft's fault!

    Hardware manufactures had plenty of time to roll out there drivers before it was released but they didn't.

    I took the plunge once MS release a few updates this month that really improved it on my laptop. So I think this time I'm staying.

    Also Apple's OS is not that great half the things they say about it are ********. It crashes, It has viruses and threats just like everything else.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
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    .•*º draziW tnioPetiS º*•. bronze trophy
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    OSX went through the same thing when it first came out (software/hardware incompatabilities.)

    I do think OSX is way better than any version of Windows that I have used.

    I would love to load OSX on my Dell laptop... Apple hardware, for the high-end stuff, is a bit too pricey for my wallet.

    Fortunately, I get to play in both worlds: OSX/Vista at work, and Windows XP at home.

    I sure to like Paralelles Desktop though... Man, I sooooo can't wait for a solid version of OSX to be available for PC's!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhulse View Post
    Apple hardware, for the high-end stuff, is a bit too pricey for my wallet.
    You can get a great mac for around $1000.00 and also if you just need it for the basics you can get a mac mini for $600.

    For a good computer I think $1000 is a fair price.
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  5. #5
    ¬.¬ shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    VMware is your friend: Mac OS x 10.4.8 running smoothly on vmware

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/...abadea9b_b.jpg

    Its very possible to already put Mac OS on a PC its very easy too.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
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    Apple uses a single company for all their RAM. A single company for all their Motherboards, and two companies for GPU's, and one company for Harddrives..

    Not exactly hard to create an bug free OS for a computer that can only use one companies RAM. BSOD is 99% of the time caused by malfunctioning hardware or drivers not software and defiantly not MS fault.

    It will be really hard.. or actually nearly impossible to get rid of all Windows OS computers. Why? Because me and many other geeks out there like to be able to mod our computers and have hardware from funky companies. Something Macs will never be able to do.

    I don't now how accurate the company count is but it's pretty darn near.

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  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    More viruses and spyware developed for Mac OS systems since it used more widely.
    Two things. Viruses and spyware would have a more difficult time working since it has a Unix background and you can't run around the system like you can in Windows. Second, the idea of a popular system gaining more viruses is a myth as documented in the Harvard published, Stanford written "The Success of Open Source".
    Also Apple's OS is not that great half the things they say about it are ********. It crashes, It has viruses and threats just like everything else.
    Compared to what? Windows? Or are you comparing OSX to a perfect OS that doesn't exist? You will find OSX many times safer than Windows could hope to be.
    Apple hardware, for the high-end stuff, is a bit too pricey for my wallet.
    I just don't get why people say that. I go to Apple's online store and their prices are around $1100 or less for some machines. Or are you comparing it to the WalMart special at $200?

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    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dub View Post
    Because me and many other geeks out there like to be able to mod our computers and have hardware from funky companies.
    You don't need Windows for that and true geeks don't use Windows.

  9. #9
    ¬.¬ shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
    Compared to what? Windows? Or are you comparing OSX to a perfect OS that doesn't exist? You will find OSX many times safer than Windows could hope to be.
    I'm just tired of everyone thinking that the Mac OS is this perfect OS that doesn't crash doesn't have any security problems. Seriously its full of problems just like everything else.

    Sure Windows has its flaws it has securtiy problems but so does everything else on the planet. It is only as unsafe as you make it.

    Don't try to tell me that Macs cannot have a virus because it has a Unix backend. Nothing is 100% so don't act like it is.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  10. #10
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_DP View Post
    Their latest moved released Safari for windows which is starting to get them more exposure on windows based machines. I would think its an attempt to bring users over from windows to Mac OS.
    Even Mac users don't use Safari as evidenced by its much lower usage share than OS X itself online (they're using Firefox). Safari was not released to convert Windows users to the Mac way-of-things, it was to encourage development of sites and services for the iPhone.

    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
    I just don't get why people say that. I go to Apple's online store and their prices are around $1100 or less for some machines. Or are you comparing it to the WalMart special at $200?
    I paid $600 for my 12.1" widescreen ultraportable laptop. CD/DVD-RW, 1GB RAM, 80GB HD, light and good looking. Bought it at Staples. Runs Vista Home Premium with no issues.

    I paid $550 for the laptop I had before that. Dell Inspiron 5100.

    I can't buy a new Apple laptop for that if I wanted one.

    Quote Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
    You don't need Windows for that and true geeks don't use Windows.
    What constitutes a true geek? Those cooky free software foundation people at the heart of the Unix community? I've seen Stallman's talks in person. He's a whacko, walks around on stage in his bare feet spewing about how America is beyond help and software developers are doomed.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Guru Dashman's Avatar
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    I dont think Apple will ever release a version of OSX for PC's/non-Apple hardware as, besides the good looks of their products, OSX is one of the primary factors that lead to people buying Macs. If it was made available for cross-platform use, then they would lose that whole market of people just wanting to use OSX, thus they would lose a very large proportion of hardware sales ... the lifeblood of the company

  12. #12
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    I doubt if Apple will make a commodity-hardware OS X--it is just too much of a support hassle to take on.

    As for Vista, I upgraded to Vista64 at work a few weeks back. So far I am generally loving it. Only issue is Cisco's refusal to produce a 64 bit vpn client.

    Is it slightly different? Yes. Is it the horrible thing some people are claiming? No. Pretty much feels like XP a year or so out of the gate to me.

  13. #13
    ~unplugged Ainslie X11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    I'm just tired of everyone thinking that the Mac OS is this perfect OS that doesn't crash doesn't have any security problems. Seriously its full of problems just like everything else.
    We have mac's and pc's so we don't swing in either direction - both are good for different things. The mac's we've used in various incarnations since 99. OSX 10.0 was a b*t*h, a firmware problem after the installation rendered a perfectly brand new g4 completely unusable until a patch came out with 10.1.2.

    Since then, we've upgraded through power books, g4's, g5's and imac's. We've learned it is possible to crash a mac by opening copious applications and crunching large files in photoshop. That might happen by accident once a year, and it's quickly solved by simply rebooting the machine.

    But we've never had any virus, or crashes that weren't invited - compared to the pc's, they're a maintenance and upgrade breeze. For security, we've only ever used router firewalls, we've never needed to run any security app's or add additional layers of protection.

    And that's the way it's been for almost 8 years, we've never heard of any mac's being ravaged by problems, virus, or crashes.

    For us, what it means is a lot less time gets spent attending to OS or hardware issues. We get 99.9% productive time out of the mac's and we don't need to follow any particular routine of servicing, upgrades or backup's, to accomplish that.

    As for the pc's, we only use them for rendering code in pc browsers, and with such a light workload, they're a breeze to work with as well. We don't use them for surfing the web, so we don't need to worry about security, we rarely upgrade the OS or install new applications, so we've only once had a problem with virus - and that took 4 days to fix.

    So we've had reasonably good performance from both over a lot of years. Certainly, if mac's are full of problems, then that's not something we've observed yet.

    If I needed to pick one to take on a mission to Mar's, I'd probably take a mac. But if I wanted to play games while I was there, I'd probably like to take a pc too


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  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    What constitutes a true geek? Those cooky free software foundation people at the heart of the Unix community? I've seen Stallman's talks in person. He's a whacko, walks around on stage in his bare feet spewing about how America is beyond help and software developers are doomed.
    Those of us who can, those of us who understand, do. Anyone who thinks the Unix community, the very foundation of most computing, is "cooky" doesn't understand.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_DP View Post
    As we all know people are starting to get very unsatisfied with Microsoft's latest attempt at an OS.

    Which leads me to think that if Apple released a version of OS X that could replace windows on a basic PC a lot of people would start using it more.

    BUT this could also have a negative effect such as:
    - Not many people buying Apple Hardware
    - More viruses and spyware developed for Mac OS systems since it used more widely.
    I doubt that Apple will ever challenge Micrsoft as a virus/spyware magnet. Microsoft's software is simply too flawed and the company too hated.

    But your remark about Apple hardware rings true. That is obviously where Apple makes most of its money. As Apple gains in popularity, I wonder if its hardware costs will come down a bit? Will Mac's eventually be as easy for geeks to manipulate as PC's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    What constitutes a true geek? Those cooky free software foundation people at the heart of the Unix community? I've seen Stallman's talks in person. He's a whacko, walks around on stage in his bare feet spewing about how America is beyond help and software developers are doomed.
    I agree that Stallman is a kook. However, I'm not certain who he's really working for - the free software/Unix community or Microsoft.
    Last edited by geosite; Nov 16, 2007 at 14:28.

  16. #16
    l º 0 º l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    Don't try to tell me that Macs cannot have a virus because it has a Unix backend. Nothing is 100% so don't act like it is.
    No one is trying to tell you that, and no one is acting like it's the perfect platform out there. This is the real world, of course. What is said, though, is that you just don't have to be as concerned with security on a Mac compared to a Windows machine because of how each is built.
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  17. #17
    ~unplugged Ainslie X11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lo0ol View Post
    No one is trying to tell you that, and no one is acting like it's the perfect platform out there. This is the real world, of course. What is said, though, is that you just don't have to be as concerned with security on a Mac compared to a Windows machine because of how each is built.
    Exactly, personally I'd like to know more about these "mac virus" because over the years we've never come across any. But we're not as naive to think they don't exist.

    We have found pc virus trying to get onto the comps, but with mac's they simply sit on the desktop looking real obvious - and its just a matter of dragging them into the trash and they're gone ... no harm done.

    I read the other day about a new virus for mac - via some kind of streaming media format? So there's one to look out for I guess, naturally we'd like to know more about it so if there's mac-virus guru's out there then please enlighten us.


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  18. #18
    l º 0 º l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ainslie X11 View Post
    I read the other day about a new virus for mac - via some kind of streaming media format?
    Not really. From Gruber:

    It’s unfortunate, because this Trojan is an actual attempt by Ukrainian criminals to hijack Macs, but it’s not exploiting any sort of security hole in any version of Mac OS X. To get hit by it, you must (a) be the sort of moron who downloads “video codecs” from porno sites; (b) mount the disk image and launch the installer; and (c) grant the installer administrator privileges to install whatever it wants, wherever it wants on your system. No system can prevent that.

    If anything, the fact that you have to manually install the software and supply your administrator password is a sign that Mac OS X security works.
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  19. #19
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    Like a majority of threads that concern Apple products to ends up to be a fight on which is better. The reason this happens is Windows users are so insecure they automatically get defensive.

    In my opinion Mac hardware is the better choice. Where else can you boot into both OS and run them natively. As for the best OS my opinion is OS X.

    The original topic was concerning if Apple would consider release Mac OS X for a wider range of hardware. If they did what effect would it have on their company and the computer world since most users that has upgraded to vista are dissatisfied. Note I said most not all.

    I myself like the changes in Vista except its demanding on hardware and requires you to spend hundreds of dollars on security software like other versions of windows. But the strain on the hardware will fade out as technology continues to grow each day. But as for Vista being revolutionary it's far from it. On the release date it was already out of date because of OS X already had all of the features.

  20. #20
    ¬.¬ shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    How is Vista out of date? I've looked at the new features of Leopard there is nothing new or revolutionary there.

    For example Time Machine, not new Windows had something like that back in Windows ME (Sucked in ME, but still) if I remember correctly it was called System Restore. Now Apple does make it prettier and easier to use I'll give them that.

    But they made a mistake. Its not enabled by default and you need an external HDD to use it. While in XP/Vista it is on by default and you don't need an external HDD. Granted if your internal HDD goes bad you lose your data On Windows, but if you don't have an external for Apple you still lose.

    BTW I am not pro Windows nor pro Apple nor Pro Anything. They are tools and meant to be used as tools. Unless I make my own OS nothing will be perfect for me.


    http://www.apple.com/getamac/viruses.html
    "By the end of 2005, there were 114,000 known viruses for PCs. In March 2006 alone, 850 new threats were detected against Windows. Zero for Mac."

    If there were no security threats for the Mac why are there security updates?
    Also it wasn't an entirely bad virus but still was a virus. http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/ne...acosxleap.html

    You don't need to spend any money on security software for windows. Lots of free anti-virus (AGV, avast. All good). Spyware (Lavasoft, Spybot S&D), Firewalls, etc.
    Logic without the fatal effects.
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  21. #21
    l º 0 º l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    How is Vista out of date? I've looked at the new features of Leopard there is nothing new or revolutionary there.
    I think this is a flawed view by a lot of people on both sides of the aisle, that we're just a step away from the next revolutionary product. I agree with you- I don't think Vista or Leopard or Ubuntu or anything is "revolutionary". The revolutions will happen on the phone for awhile, maybe some sort of portable pseudo-phone, pseudo-laptop technology, but I think the conventional desktop is going to experience incremental changes for the foreseeable future. This isn't a bad thing at all; we've gone through a number of revolutionary changes over the last 20 or 30 years, and it's great to have a good product to build upon finally. It's really a race to see who can refine the idea right now until the next revolution truly does come down the line 10 or 20 years from now.

    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    But they made a mistake. Its not enabled by default and you need an external HDD to use it. While in XP/Vista it is on by default and you don't need an external HDD. Granted if your internal HDD goes bad you lose your data On Windows, but if you don't have an external for Apple you still lose.
    Actually I think it is enabled by default; just plug in a drive and it asks you if you want to use it as your backup source, no other interaction needed. I think it's more a matter of taste whether you want everything on one drive or not. You can likely argue it on both sides, since each side of the coin has some very valid points, but I think one aspect of Time Machine that Apple's really considering is that it's great for portable users. Apple's really making some good headway on the laptop front compared to the desktop front, and laptops are more likely to get water spilled on them, get dropped, get stolen, and so on. Your data goes with your laptop. At least if you have an external drive at home you might be able to save yourself.

    But it's a valid point though- there's some good aspects to be said about being able to back up to your own drive, really. I wonder if you could partition your drive and use one partition for Time Machine... I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    If there were no security threats for the Mac why are there security updates?
    People make mistakes. It happens. I'm sure you know that you can't provide 100% test coverage in anything you do really; sometimes you'll find holes in your own code down the line. I'm glad Apple's finding them before others do, though. Again, no one's saying it's a perfect OS; it's just that statistically it's quite clear that you're safer on a Mac right now, be it market share or security or architecture or whatever you want to examine.
    .
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  22. #22
    SitePoint Wizard drhowarddrfine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    If there were no security threats for the Mac why are there security updates?
    The alternative is to ignore it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    If there were no security threats for the Mac why are there security updates?
    I guess the answer to that is in the pudding. Here's one I just pulled from an imac - no updates have been run on that machine for at least a year. Judging by the description, it possibly constitutes just one round of updates for the entire year.

    I'd have to say, I'd be concerned if there weren't updates. Since we haven't had any virus or major issues for the years of using mac's, it's possible part of our good experience is attributed to a few minutes a year of letting the mac's do their own updating.

    Or, perhaps its the behavior of other programs that could potentially cause security issues for the applications listed below. I've never seen a security update that mentions it's for the purpose of thwarting a virus - anyone else?

    --

    Security Update 2007-008 is recommended for all users and improves the security of the following components:

    AppleRAID
    bind
    CoreFoundation
    Flash Player Plug-in
    Foundation

    Security Update 2007-007 has been incorporated into this security update.

    For detailed information on this update, please visit this website: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61798

    --


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  24. #24
    SitePoint Guru Rob_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logic_earth View Post
    For example Time Machine, not new Windows had something like that back in Windows ME (Sucked in ME, but still) if I remember correctly it was called System Restore. Now Apple does make it prettier and easier to use I'll give them that.
    System Restore? Is this the same as system restore in XP, Vista? Or did it back up data as well?
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  25. #25
    ¬.¬ shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_D View Post
    System Restore? Is this the same as system restore in XP, Vista? Or did it back up data as well?
    Yes it is the same, In XP they improved it and made it better in XP. Now in Vista they took it further calling it Shadow Copy now, what they did with Vista is have it save a version of every single change you make to a file/folder or to the whole HDD.

    So Time Machine is the same thing that is in Vista. However with Vista you do not need a second HDD to make it work it is just there from the beginning.

    (Some people cannot afford a second HDD, ie. my mother.)


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