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  1. #1
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    Define 'proficient'

    Hi,

    I'm beginning to learn PHP but am told that I should have a 'proficient' grasp of HTML before I begin.

    Forgetting how much HTML I must know to learn PHP, what would you call 'knowing enough' HTML?

    I've only run through a few tutorials in what I imagine are the basics.

    I suppose this is a difficult question to pin point an answer, but what is the upper boundry of knowledge any person who 'knows HTML' should have?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Gone!
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    'a good understanding of'
    'able to do without trouble'
    etc etc

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    Typo Negative brokenvoice's Avatar
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    If you find yourself only needing a reference book occasionally (like for obscure tags) then I'd say you were proficient.

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    Ah, my bad, I thought it was a bit wooly

    What I meant is, and this is where the pin point comes in, when you have learn xxxxxx, you are proficient,
    or when you are able to xxxxxx by hand, you are proficient.

    I know you can't really say its one thing, but Im just looking for an estimate of where Im at in relation to being good, and how far I have to go.

    Thanks fellas.

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    SitePoint Enthusiast limmystar's Avatar
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    Are you able to hand code a website using HTML with tables, images, 'not' all centered text with good layout and navigation.
    No redundant tags, no nested tags, alt tags on most if not all of your images, width & height measurement on all your images. Good color scheme, all internal links are working, good use of negative space, use of meta tags, different font sizes and faces, multiple browser and resolution compatible and run it through a validator and not get a lot of errors?

    Then youre probably proficient
    Limmystar

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    So apart from the layout tags, including sizes etc, there isn't much else I need to know to claim "I am proficient in HTML"?

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    SitePoint Enthusiast limmystar's Avatar
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    How about iframes, marquees, tables - cellpadding, cellspacing, td width, td bgcolor, plus mailto:, complex tables, forms, borders, mixing HTML with javascript, flash, & other languages
    Limmystar

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    No redundant tags, no nested tags, alt tags on most if not all of your images, width & height measurement on all your images.

    ahhh.. damn.. guess im going back to learning html
    html is for lazy ppl if u want a redundant tag.. GO FOR IT!!! Thats hte beauty of the langauge!! You can do pretty much whateve you want, and it still works!!

  9. #9
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
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    When you can figure out a wyswig based htm file and fix it so it uses fewer nested tables and no proprietary tags than I would say you have some proficiency

    As for your last statement don't count on it much longer. Most of the bad habits WILL be weeded out by the next set of browsers. (some of them gone this set) xHtml is the future. Believe it or Not
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    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    I would say that if you have to ask "Am I proficient in HTML?" then you're probably not. If you don't know HTML yet then you're asking for trouble trying to learn PHP. It's a totally different ballgame from HTML.
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    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by limmystar
    Are you able to hand code a website using HTML with tables, images, 'not' all centered text with good layout and navigation.
    No redundant tags, no nested tags, alt tags on most if not all of your images, width & height measurement on all your images. Good color scheme, all internal links are working, good use of negative space, use of meta tags, different font sizes and faces, multiple browser and resolution compatible and run it through a validator and not get a lot of errors?

    Then youre probably proficient
    Much of what you mentioned are a graphics issue and NOT HTML. I hope you're proficient enough to know the difference.

    Limmy, I agree that if you can't code an HTML page by hand, then you're not ready for PHP. That doesn't mean you don't create a good site, but PHP is all hand coding and if you can't hand code some relatively simplistic HTML, then you probably aren't ready for PHP. But you may not be far off. Just keep working with HTML and get good with it.


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    Well I can write Java to a certain degree, I'm doing it at uni you see.

    The reason I asked is that from what I have seen of HTML, there seems to be little more than "the basics" in frequent use, and so I wondered how much more there is to know apart from inserting tables, images and formatting text.

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    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    If you're programmin java, you can probably safely take a stab at PHP

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  14. #14
    What? Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Originally posted by amnesiac
    Well I can write Java to a certain degree, I'm doing it at uni you see.

    The reason I asked is that from what I have seen of HTML, there seems to be little more than "the basics" in frequent use, and so I wondered how much more there is to know apart from inserting tables, images and formatting text.
    Not a lot. Most of the more advanced topics require javascript and past that you want a server sided language. If you know Java then PHP will be easy in comparisson. Just a matter of learning its syntax and huge number of functions.
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  15. #15
    SitePoint Enthusiast limmystar's Avatar
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    Much of what you mentioned are a graphics issue and NOT HTML. I hope you're proficient enough to know the difference.
    Okay O Wise One, Please enlighten us with the definition of being 'HTML Proficient'
    Limmystar

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    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    limmystar...
    notice the smilie at the end of his posts. He was being funny..or at least trying ot be funny. Like I said earlier, if you have to ask if you're proficient, then you're probably not.
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    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by limmystar


    Okay O Wise One, Please enlighten us with the definition of being 'HTML Proficient'
    Thanks, Creole.

    Limmy, let me explain. You are mixing the difference between a web designer and an HTML programmer. As a webdesigner, you will need a basic understanding of graphics, colors, etc., as well as HTML and maybe some server-side stuff. Maybe not. As an HTML programmer, you only need to know HTML the markup language.

    As a programmer, you can have HTML w/o graphics. As a designer, you must have working knowledge of both.

    I actually have seen minimalistic sites that use nothing but table borders and fonts to create the interface. It has nothing to do with graphics. In fact nothing has been used. There are no special "color scheme" to be seen, yet they are professional and good.

    So to answer the question in it's context, to learn PHP, you will need working understanding of HTML. Graphics and understandings of them do not come anywhere into the play as it relates to PHP.

    I hope you understand my point.

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