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  1. #1
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Feb 2006
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    Don't Buy From Turnkeywebtools.com

    And here's why:

    Conversation
    xxxxxx@cox.net
    Posted On: Oct 18 2007 10:57 AM

    Hello,
    I have been speaking with Josh in support over the last few days and he
    instructed me to contact the sales department for a refund. I purchased
    PhpLiveHelper in April of this year to be used on a new website. Well
    that website development was delayed until June, then again until now.
    Unfortunately, I simply cannot get your program to work with my Joomla
    website. They're just simply not compatible. If you review ticket
    JVP-841530 you'll see all that is going on. There are other problems
    too. When I click on my shopping cart, the invite image automatically
    appears for no reason. Also, the script sometimes causes the site to
    load incredibly slowly and times out sometimes too. When I unpublish the
    module containing the code for the icon, everything works again. Since
    I have not derived any use from the script since I purchased, nor will I
    be able to use the script, I would like a refund. As you will see, the
    license is for xxxxxxxx.com and nowhere on that site am I using
    PhpLiveHelper as it was planned for the new xxxxxxxxxxx website. Here
    are my order details:

    Order Id Number: TWT-33306-41307135250
    Date of Purchase: 04/13/2007
    Billing Information:
    Customer ID: TKC8770080
    First Name: xxxxx
    Last Name: xxxxx
    Company: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Address: xxxxxxxxx
    City: xxxxxxxxxxxx
    State/Province: xxx
    Zip/Postal Code: xxxxxx
    Country: US
    Phone: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    E-Mail: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    ------------------------------------------------
    None
    Total: $99.99
    I do like the program a lot and wish it worked because the backend works
    very well, but so many front end problems that just aren't worth the
    time and money to fix. Please advise me on how to receive a refund for
    the product.
    Thanks,
    xxxxxxxxxxx

    TWT Inc Quotes
    Posted On: Oct 22 2007 03:45 PM
    Hello, it has been 4 days since I posted this ticket and I have been unable to talk to anyone in the sales department on the live chat. Please reply.

    TWT Inc Quotes
    Posted On: Oct 22 2007 04:11 PM
    I've deleted the PHP Live Helper MySQL database (see attachment) and I've also deleted the entire script from my server, see FTP delete log below, and please issue a refund for my purchase. I'm not attempting to use the script for free. I made a huge effort to try and make it work for me, but there were just too many problems that could not be solved for me to be able to use your software.

    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/chat.php
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/initiate.php
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/javascript.php
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/libsecure.php
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/onlinestatus_html.php
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/onlinestatus_html.php
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/themes/plh/chat.html
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/themes/plh/chat_ended.html
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    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/themes/plh/chat_entry.html
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/themes/plh/transcript_email.html
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/include/mail/class.phpmailer.php
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    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/images/iv_background1.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/docs/change_log.txt
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/adminglobal.php
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/config.php
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    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/g_c_5.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/go.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/go.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/graph.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/graph.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/green-left.jpg
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/green-left.jpg
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/h-dot-line.jpg
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/h-dot-line.jpg
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/help.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/i-left-green.jpg
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/i-left-green.jpg
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico-home.jpg
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico-home.jpg
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico-logged-in.jpg
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico-logged-in.jpg
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico-logout.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico1.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico2.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico3.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico4.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico5.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/ico6.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/left-link-bot.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/left-link-top.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/loading.gif
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/logo.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/nav_bottom_crn.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/nav_bottom_crn.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/nav_top_crn.gif
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/news.gif
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/p_c_1.gif
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/p_c_2.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/p_c_2.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/shade.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/shade.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/side_nav_bg.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/side_nav_bg.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/spacer.gif
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/top-tile.jpg
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    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/add.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/add.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/delete.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/delete.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/edit.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/edit.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/html.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/html.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/images.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/images.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/logout.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/logout.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/print.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/print.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/pushes.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/pushes.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/settings.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/settings.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/view.gif
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/themes/plh/images/icons/view.gif
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-17_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-17_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-18_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-18_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-19_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-19_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-21_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-21_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-2_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-10-2_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-4-18_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-4-18_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-4-19_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-4-19_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-4-25_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-4-25_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-10_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-10_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-11_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-11_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-12_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-12_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-14_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-14_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-15_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-15_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-16_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-16_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-2_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-2_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-3_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-3_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-4_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-4_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-5_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-5_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-7_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-7_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-8_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-8_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-9_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-5-9_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-10_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-10_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-11_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-11_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-12_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-12_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-13_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-13_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-14_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-14_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-15_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-15_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-16_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-16_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-17_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-17_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-18_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-18_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-19_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-19_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-1_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-1_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-20_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-20_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-21_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-21_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-22_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-22_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-24_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-24_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-25_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-25_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-26_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-26_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-27_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-27_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-28_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-28_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-29_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-29_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-2_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-2_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-30_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-30_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-3_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-3_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-4_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-4_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-5_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-5_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-6_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-6_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-7_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-7_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-8_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-8_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-9_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-6-9_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-7-10_7534889348.csv
    Response: 250 Deleted /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-7-10_7534889348.csv
    Command: DELE /public_html/phplivehelper/admin/reports/2007-7-11_7534889348.csv
    .
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    Attachments sql_delete_proof.jpg (45.80 KB)

    xxxxxxxxxx
    Posted On: Oct 29 2007 12:21 PM
    Samuel in support assured me that he forwarded my ticket KST-660527 to "management." This was last week and I have not heard anything from anyone yet. I marked my ticket as critical. It's a shame that a company like yours is so helpful prior to making the sale yet when there's a problem, no one seems to care. Based on this utter lack of care, I have already discouraged others from doing business with your company. I would happily post otherwise, if someone should decide to care.

    TWT Support
    Posted On: Oct 29 2007 02:57 PM
    Thanks for your patience... your request is being reviewed as your were told earlier. We don't usually process refunds requests past 14 days but we can still review it. Did you already fill our and fax over a request to us, or did you only send this ticket? PLease fill out and fax over your request with the reference number being this ticket number.

    xxxxxxxx
    Posted On: Oct 29 2007 03:24 PM
    I will fill out the form. I only opened a ticket because this is not your typical "try it, don't like it, return it" situation. I like it, but I won't be able to use it on my website like I had planned. There's no reason for Turn Key Web Tools to NOT refund my money if I cannot use the software. And because it's only licensed for one domain, they can verify that I'm not using it to their heart's content... Thank you for the reply.

    > Ticket Details
    > ===================
    > Ticket ID: RYL-427866
    > Department: Sales
    > Priority: Low
    > Status: Closed


    Posted On: Nov 01 2007 03:10 PM
    I have just faxed the letter of intellectual property destruction form at 3:08pm PST.

    Posted On: Nov 06 2007 10:35 AM
    Why was this ticket closed? I am still waiting for your reply. If I don't get a response soon, I will be forced to take the appropriate actions necessary to receive a refund for software which I cannot and have not used. I faxed the form on November 1st. It is now the 6th. You people are being quite unreasonable and your lack of communication further documents my case against your company.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Member
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    What dax702 fails to mention is that his original purchase date was on 04/13/2007 and we do have a money back guarantee in place for things such as this. Our guarantee is clearly posted on our site and is located here. Why would this person wait 6 months before requesting a refund when our policy and license agreement are clearly posted on our site.

    As far as Joomla integration goes, we have never tried it ourselves but I am sure its not impossible to do. We don't actually claim the software is compatible as a module in Joomla but if you use it outside of Joomla it will run fine.

    We have received his refund request for review but our policies are clearly outlined in our license agreement and guarantee and there should not be any confusion.

    Regards,

    Turnkey Web Tools Support
    800.673.4898 x 2
    support[at]turnkeywebtools.com

  3. #3
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    My reply:

    That's fine if it takes 14 days to process. But communicate with me, it's not right to just ignore people and close tickets that are obviously not resolved. That's extremely annoying when a company bends over backwards in terms of pre-sales support, but after you have my money, if there's a problem, then you don't know me. I don't operate my business that way, I'd be out of business if I did. I liked the software, I wanted to use it for a new website, I bought it. I had loads of trouble with it, not because the software is bad, it just wasn't working for me and I tried a LOT to get it to work correctly with my site. I provided the FTP deletion log as well as a screen shot showing that I deleted the MySQL database. I've deleted the installation package as well.. I've derived NO USE from PhpLiveHelper in any way. There should be no reason you should not "choose" to provide a refund if I have not, am not and will not be using the software. Please be reasonable!

    Their reply:

    We understand that you no longer are using the software but your original purchase date is in April. It has also come to our attention that you have posted negative information about us on a forum. It makes it really hard to want to help you when you do something like this. Especially when you fail to mention our policy is clearly stated on our site regarding refunds and that you waited 7 months to request the refund.

    My reply:

    Sir, I did not "wait 7 months to request the refund." I requested the refund immediately after coming to the conclusion that I would be unable to use PhpLiveHelper on my website. Yes I purchased in April. Development of the new website has been delayed over and over again since I made the purchase. I didn't post anything "negative." I posted this ticket so people can see how completely unreasonable you are being with regard to *THIS* situation. When a business transaction takes place, you receive payment and I receive software. Well, my $100 that I paid to you in April is still functioning for you, however, the software I bought from you in April has never functioned for me. So, I ask you, how is it fair that you should continue to have my $100 when I have nothing? In any reasonable person's eyes, that is essentially theft. I will be MORE than happy to remove the forum post should you decide to practice common business courtesy and extend a refund for something that which I have not, can not and will not use on my domain.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Just do what's right. I really don't have the time to get on the phone with VISA, too much work to do.. I should also mention that your very responsive and attentive pre-sales support told me in a chat that it should work fine with Joomla.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    the saga with Turnkeywebtools.com continues...

    TWT Support
    Posted On: Nov 06 2007 02:26 PM
    As I stated we have your request and we will make a decision soon.

    Me
    Posted On: Nov 13 2007 02:12 PM
    To management:
    I have patiently waited for another week since I was told a decision would be made "soon." Just for my documentation, can I have a definition of the word soon by Turnkey Web Tools, Inc.? We're approaching one month in a few more days since I initiated this refund request..

    Me
    Posted On: Nov 19 2007 04:12 PM
    Yesterday was November 18th, one full month since I initiated this refund request.. I've never in my life come across a company that conducts business in as slow a manner as Turn Key Web Tools..

  6. #6
    SitePoint Enthusiast uberhost's Avatar
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    Things to be learned from this thread:
    • When you buy a new product, test it right away so that you can return it if it doesn't work.
    • Relying on a salesman's word in chat is probably not wise.
    UBERHOST.NET
    Shared, Reseller, Semi-Dedicated Hosting and Dedicated Servers
    cPanel or DirectAdmin Money-Back Guarantee 24/7 Support
    Providing "Service Above All Else" since 2005

  7. #7
    SitePoint Evangelist
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    Oh believe me, when I purchased their software, I was ready to put it into use. Ran into trouble right off the bat but these days when does anything work perfectly out of the box? I didn't construe those problems in the beginning to be insurmountable... Then we ran into other things and the site development was (verifiably) delayed. When it came time to resume site development, I put days of effort into getting PhpLiveHelper to work within my system. Unable to succeed on my own, and with the help of their support, I even solicited the help of Mark Wilton-Jones, a highly experienced programmer and employee of Opera (web browser) He was able to help some but it just was not meant to be.

    The bottom line here is that I've been MORE than reasonable with this company. I've sent them:

    1. The FTP log showing I deleted all the files from the server
    2. A screenshot of the deletion of the associated MySQL database as well.
    3. Moreover, the license is for one domain only. And if this is an issue of trust, they can feel free to go to my website at any time today, next week, a year from now and verify that I'm not using PhpLiveHelper on my website (am actually using Crafty Syntax Live Help instead as I had no issues with it and Joomla (highly recommend)
    4. Filled out their form and faxed it.


    As I said to them before, the $100 that I paid for the software has been functioning fine since they received it. But on the flipside, their software hasn't functioned for me. So I ask anyone here, is it fair that they should continue to enjoy the use of my $100 when I have not, am not and will not enjoy the use of the software? I'm for charity but if I were going to make a $100 donation, it wouldn't be to TurnKeyWebTools.com (it would be for Ron Paul!!)

  8. #8
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    The Turnkey Web Tools saga continues, I posted this message on my ticket this morning:

    Posted On: Nov 26 2007 08:34 AM
    Another week has gone by, and no communication from your company...

  9. #9
    SitePoint Evangelist dalt's Avatar
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    It appears Turnkey Web Tools aren't reputable as they could have resolved this problem quickly.

    Dalt

  10. #10
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    They're trying to say that I purposely waited so many months to return it when I have a mountain of evidence proving that's not the case. I deleted the software with proof, I deleted the MySQL database, with proof. I filled out and faxed their destruction of property form and they just continue to ignore me. Very lame, I do not recommend anyone buy from this company unless you're positive that you won't run into any site delays.

  11. #11
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    If you were our customer, we'd have paid the refund and said "Sorry it didn't work out". Even if it was outside the company's terms & conditions and timescales! Is the negative association really worth $99 to a company? My impression is that as a company gets bigger, customer service suffers UNLESS the company actually appreciates the value of good customer service.

  12. #12
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    Same with our business. We bend over backwards for customers no matter what. If there was a shipping delay (that wasn't our fault) we'll send them free products for the inconvenience.. I had nothing against their product, the back end was designed nicely, easy to use. I was just running into all kinds of trouble with the front end functionality. They really weren't even able to help me get it working in my site either; I don't have proof of that because it was through a chat conversation so I'm not using it as any evidence. All I can use is what I can backup with documentation.. Simply unbelievable.

  13. #13
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    Absolutely Without A Doubt Do Not Buy From Turn Key Web Tools, Inc.

    Well I decided to give good ol' Turn Key Web Tools a call this morning. Pressed 1 for sales and wouldn't you know it? Josh answered the phone right away. "Oh wow, they haven't responded to that yet?" he says. I ask to be transferred to the manager and he apparently doesn't have the manager's extension and I get cut off. I call again, he says he made a mistake and transfers me again. The line just rings and rings for many minutes. While the line is ringing, I see my email box light up and sure enough there's a reply on the ticket from Turk Key Web Tools, Inc:

    TWT Support
    Posted On: Nov 30 2007 11:29 AM
    Your request for a refund was not approved. That is why you have not heard anything on the matter. Unfortunately there is nothing more we can do at this time.


    Kind of ironic how I just happen to get a reply while I'm waiting to talk to a manager..

    So I tried calling back and wouldn't you know it, now I can't even get Sales department on the phone.

    So I replied to the ticket:

    Posted On: Nov 30 2007 11:35 AM
    That is completely unacceptable. There's no reason you should keep payment for software that I have not, can not and will not use AND I've given proof of complete destruction as well... I hope you're prepared for the biggest public relations problem you've ever seen and I'm not talking about just web forums either - all because you cannot provide a simple refund to a customer who has been MORE than reasonable in his request.


    If possible, I would like any info possible from anyone on more forums to post this experience on so I can save others from likely having to go through this. As well as any other advice for hopefully getting a company like this put out of business.

    I would also request to the moderator of this group that this post be made into a sticky as I feel EVERYONE should be warned about doing business with this excuse for a company.

  14. #14
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    Absolutely Do Not Buy From Turnkeywebtools.com

    Wow can you believe it, two replies in one day from TurnKeyWebTools.com, I guess they don't like getting phone calls so they start replying.. Interesting.

    TWT Support
    Posted On: Nov 30 2007 11:50 AM
    We have explained this many times to you but we have policies and agreements in place for a reason. You agreed to these policies when you installed and purchased the software.



    Me
    Posted On: Nov 30 2007 12:11 PM
    Again, do you people have any concept of what the word reasonable means? THE SOFTWARE IS UNUSABLE FOR ME. You can verify all day every day for the rest of your life that I am not using PhpLiveHelper. Please refund the money - it's not yours to keep; and I can prove it to ANY Trier Of Fact if you choose to take this that far. This is what someone said in reply to the situation on the web forum:

    "If you were our customer, we'd have paid the refund and said "Sorry it didn't work out". Even if it was outside the company's terms & conditions and timescales! Is the negative association really worth $99 to a company? My impression is that as a company gets bigger, customer service suffers UNLESS the company actually appreciates the value of good customer service."

    You know, we bend over backwards for our customers too. If there's some issue, any issue at all, whether it's in the terms & conditions or not, we address the issue for the customer. What is wrong with you people? I can't even call to talk to a manager without continually getting cut off? And then I just happen to get a reply to the ticket while I'm listening to the phone ring and ring..

    Can you just do what's right, please?? My God, I shouldn't have to be begging to receive a refund for something I can't use!


    It's hard to believe that this day in age, with so much competition that companies would treat people like this.....

  15. #15
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    We deal with hundreds of existing as well as new customers each day and this is the first issue like yours. Lets look at how our policies compare to those of any other retail store. Lets say I was to go into a store like Best Buy and purchase a software title and open the package to install it on my computer but then decide to hold off on installing it a few months. A few months later I install it but then decide I don't like it and attempt to return it to Best Buy only to find out that they will only exchange it for the same title. Is this any different then our policy? The fact is that we have thousands of customers using the same software without any issues. We would have been more then happy to provide you with a full refund, no questions asked, had you have brought the issues to our attention months before you did.

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    Absolultely do not ever buy from TurnKeyWebTools.com

    Just because this is the first issue "like mine," doesn't mean you have to treat me like some kind of piece of dirt. And frankly, I don't really care about what you do for thousands of "OTHER CUSTOMERS." I am just as important as any of them, thank you very much! Moreover, I did not install it and decide I didn't "like it" as you're falsely stating. I've said in many messages to you people that I like the software, I have nothing against the software, IT JUST SIMPLY WILL NOT WORK WITH MY SYSTEM! And finally, I can prove without a doubt that I have never used Php Live Helper to talk to a single potential customer on my website as this software was planned to be used with a new website (same domain name). Even more - the license I purchased was for ONE domain and as I've said before, it was NEVER, not ONCE used for any benefit whatsoever on that domain.

    I've not only completed your required destruction of intellectual property form, I've GIVEN you and the entire world the complete FTP delete log showing each and every file was deleted PLUS proof of the deletion of the MySQL database.

    Yet you're going to tell me that you're going to keep my $99 simply because I didn't return it within 14 days? Can you honestly sit there as a human being and say that is the right thing to do?

  17. #17
    SitePoint Evangelist dalt's Avatar
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    What garbage.

    Turnkey Webtools, I doubt whether you have many customers at all based on the fact you won't refund the $99. I have followed this this thread closely and can't understand what is the problem with this refund. Your client has proved to you that the script is junk.

    Google your name 'turnkeywebtools' and you will find your foolishness in not refunding the $99 splashed all over the first page. Is this what you call business sense. I suggest you change your name as any smart webmaster will see these posts.

    Dalt

    Quote Originally Posted by tkwebtools View Post
    We deal with hundreds of existing as well as new customers each day and this is the first issue like yours. Lets look at how our policies compare to those of any other retail store. Lets say I was to go into a store like Best Buy and purchase a software title and open the package to install it on my computer but then decide to hold off on installing it a few months. A few months later I install it but then decide I don't like it and attempt to return it to Best Buy only to find out that they will only exchange it for the same title. Is this any different then our policy? The fact is that we have thousands of customers using the same software without any issues. We would have been more then happy to provide you with a full refund, no questions asked, had you have brought the issues to our attention months before you did.

  18. #18
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    Dalt, I need to correct you - their script is not junk, and I never said it was junk. I'm sure it works fine in a non-content management system setup. However, I was told (in a live chat with them pre-purchase that there shouldn't be any issues using it in Joomla) However, I encountered a world of trouble trying to use it with Joomla. Some problems I overcame, then the site delays came about. I just want and rightfully deserve the refund because it did not work for me in my situation and that it was never used on a live site with live customers, hence no benefit was derived from the software.

    What IS junk is their customer service which I will like to call customer abuse instead. Typical corporate BS referring to "other customers" but not taking care of the one who is addressing a grievance..

  19. #19
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    So I guess dalt, because you have been following the thread you know everything about this case? Furthermore, based on this one case you have come to the conclusion that everyone in the world should stay away from us? Lets be realistic here. Yes, we like every other company in this world, work hard to make sure that our customers are happy and satisfied with the products they purchase from us. But you obviously cant make everyone happy all of the time. There is always going to be that one customer who thinks that they were treated unfairly or unjustly even though the company has followed all of their publicly made policies which are made absolutely clear. Six months is a long time to wait to ask for a refund. In fact, we couldn't even refund the original charge even if we wanted to because we no longer have access to it. That being beside the point, the issue at hand here is why is the software not functioning correctly. We surely don't advertise compatibility with Joomla anywhere on our site nor should it be implied. As I stated a few times already, had this issue been brought to our attention Six months ago perhaps a better resolution could have been sought. As far as your comments about smart webmasters seeing this post goes I have no issues with it. We offer quality products and anyone who uses them can see that. We stand behind our products and our service but where exactly do we draw the line? At 7 or 8 months down the line?

  20. #20
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    Once again, I did not purposely sit around on my *** and wait just to see if I could get a refund from TurnKeyWebTools.com several months down the line and for you to imply that shows that you have no respect for customers.

    The reason I'm saying that people should not buy from your company is based on how you treat people when situations arise outside of your terms and conditions. You know it's not a perfect world out there and not everything happens under terms and conditions. Right off the bat I can think of many issues that come up in my business with customers that don't fall under our terms but we do what's right anyways.

    And again, I have been MORE than reasonable with my request and providing tons of proof that I haven't benefited AT ANY TIME since April 13th, 2007 from buying your software. So the real bottom line here is that you've essentially forced me into donating $99 to TurnKeyWebTools for no reason whatsoever.

    Wouldn't you rather me post something like "Yeah it didn't work out with Joomla and Php Live Helper, but they are some great stand up people and gave me a refund without any hassle. At least you know you won't be screwed by them" But no, I can't write something like that because you won't allow it.

    You can easily provide a refund, if not directly to my credit card (which you can through your credit card terminal), than through paypal as we have a paypal address. So this nonsense about not being able to refund my money is just that, nonsense.. Any internet merchant will agree.

  21. #21
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    Where did I say that we couldn't provide a refund? I said we couldn't credit your original charge.

  22. #22
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
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    Banks and credit card companies place a time limit on how long after an original charge is put through that the charge can be reversed. Usually it is about a month from the date of the original transaction. After that it is not possible to have the original transaction reversed and all of the merchant charges appropriate to that transaction are deducted from the sellers account. Were the seller to make a full refund after that date then they would be out of pocket by the merchant charges. That is one of the reasons why most sellers will limit their offer of full refunds to that period and it is the buyer's responsibility to make sure that they determine the suitability of anything they purchase within that refund period. If the buyer for any reason whatsoever does not do that (whether through their own fault or for reasons outside of their control) then this has nothing whatever to do with the seller who sold the item in good faith. The mere fact that the seller is even discussing this matter with you at this late stage demonstrates the excellent service that this particular seller is providing. Don't go blaming others for something that is your responsibility and it was your responsibility to test that your purchase worked back when you bought it. You agreed to that when you made the purchase and even if something beyond your control meant that you couldn't do it that is just your bad luck, it certainly has nothing whatever to do with the seller as their need to be involved ended months ago.
    Stephen J Chapman

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  23. #23
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    The bottom line is that they can return $99 dollars to me; where it comes from and in what form is up to them. Heck, I've done it in my business. A customer bought some learning products and discovered that they were way over his head at his stage of skill and decided to return them a few months down the line. Maybe he was lying and actually used them, I don't know, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt of course because he was a customer. So I wrote the customer a check and mailed it to him.

    In this case it's MORALLY right to refund the money as I did not use the software once for any type of benefit. I'm not in the business of sending them a $99 donation. Yes it fell outside the refund date. Essentially all they're doing is saying "too bad sucker" and that is not good customer service in any situation.
    I would NEVER in a MILLION YEARS take an attitude like that with ANY of my customers for ANY reason. Perhaps the Golden Rule doesn't apply anymore these days.

  24. #24
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    This is nothing more than a vindictive smear campaign by a disgruntled customer.
    There is no moral, ethical, legal or business reason for this company to refund you any money.
    Accept their decision and move on.
    Your not winning much support here either:
    http://forum.videohelp.com/topic341370.html

    PS: Totally agree with felgall comments!

  25. #25
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    I'm just making the situation known because I don't believe it's fair to treat a customer that has purchased from you in this manner. I would never ever ever do this to any of my customers and I just think it's wrong. Companies such as mine and others I have done business with who TRULY care more about people than about terms and conditions don't do this sort of thing.


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