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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard wheeler's Avatar
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    Anyone using Dreamweaver CS3 for PHP work?

    Anyone using Dreamweaver CS3 for PHP work?

    I've been using Dreamweaver 8 for a long time and i'm thinking I need a decent PHP IDE. The best features I could think of are code completion, easy debugging, variable/function/class tracking and reasonable CSS support (like design view in DW). I really don't want to jump around between applications.

    I have a bad feeling DW CS3 isn't going to meet any of these requirements.
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  2. #2
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    I use PHPdesigner2007 from MPSoftware ... i use it since 2004 (was free back then up to 2007) ... It does the job very well

  3. #3
    Trash Boat mkoenig's Avatar
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    The zend ide sucks... it eats all your system resources and takes longer to load than photoshop with 50 plugins... lol

    I use dreamweaver 8 MX .. i may need to get my boss to buy CS3 if its all that?

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard wheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drisate View Post
    I use PHPdesigner2007 from MPSoftware ...
    I tried the demo of this program out for a couple of days, it seemed ok but I didn't have the time to try it out properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by mkoenig View Post
    The zend ide sucks... it eats all your system resources and takes longer to load than photoshop with 50 plugins... lol

    I use dreamweaver 8 MX .. i may need to get my boss to buy CS3 if its all that?
    Yeh photoshop has always been slow to load up, but for me I really don't care... I open about 4 applications first thing every morning and leave them running all day so I couldn't care a less how long the initial load takes - as long as its quick and stable once running.

    I see alot of people bagging Zend Studio and alot of others seem to swear by it.

    I can say with a bit of confidence that as far as xhtml/css based design work goes, dreamweaver is miles ahead of the competition. They just don't seem to give much thought to the web development side of things, and its a real shame.
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  5. #5
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Vim and Editplus
    Logic without the fatal effects.
    All code snippets are licensed under WTFPL.


  6. #6
    SitePoint Evangelist praetor's Avatar
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    The new Zend IDE (it had a beta version for download but now it's closed) is built on eclipse and it is the best IDE for php I've used. But if you don't mind some 'rough' edges you can use the free version Eclipse PDT.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard TheRedDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkoenig View Post
    The zend ide sucks... it eats all your system resources and takes longer to load than photoshop with 50 plugins... lol
    Quote Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
    Yeh photoshop has always been slow to load up, but for me I really don't care... I open about 4 applications first thing every morning and leave them running all day so I couldn't care a less how long the initial load takes - as long as its quick and stable once running.
    Ive used Zend Studio for almost two years now, and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

    For it or photoshop ever beeing slow, Ive not experienced it. Both boot up in less than 10 seconds here, on an almost three year old workstation. I suspect that if anyone experience that any of those is slow, its due to inproper software/driver configurations.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
    I see alot of people bagging Zend Studio and alot of others seem to swear by it.

    I can say with a bit of confidence that as far as xhtml/css based design work goes, dreamweaver is miles ahead of the competition. They just don't seem to give much thought to the web development side of things, and its a real shame.
    In my opinion Zend Studio (Professional edition) its the best IDE for php, especially considering its debugging abilities. Though it can be difficult to get into for someone not used to it. Took me a few months to learn the in and outs of every functionality it offers. Now I could not imagine developing without it, as it saves me countless hours a week.

    Zend Studio does not have a "wysiwyg" ability like Dreamweaver at the moment. But Zend Studio Neon will, its currently in beta (imo alpha) release and is due for RC somewhere around christmas if everything goes as planned.

    If they manage to fix the issues, and get most of the requested features added I think it will work very well. At least I am looking forward for it to hit RC.

    Note, that Zend offers a 15% discount for anyone ordering Zend Studio during their current campaign. Download the beta version of Zend Studio Neon and use it a little, if you like the functionality it might be an idea to get a license while its discounted.

    As logic_earth mentions vim if your on unix based systems or editplus if your on windows is not a bad choise either. I still use editplus 2 frequently together with Zend Studio (one on each monitor).

  8. #8
    We're from teh basements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedDevil View Post
    As logic_earth mentions vim if your on unix based systems or editplus if your on windows is not a bad choise either. I still use editplus 2 frequently together with Zend Studio (one on each monitor).
    I tried EditPlus a few years ago when my eval copy of UltraEdit32 expired. I eventually got an UltraEdit license and haven't tried EditPlus again since then. How does it compare with UltraEdit these days?

  9. #9
    SitePoint Addict mmanders's Avatar
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    The Eclipse IDE for PHP is excellent. It has all the features the OP requires and works well on Linux and Windows. It also has good integration with SVN.

  10. #10
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    I think the best program for writing PHP (and practically any language) has to be notepad++. It's not an IDE as such, it's notepad with syntax highlighting, but I trust my own file layouts, not dreamweaver's.
    Jake Arkinstall
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    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  11. #11
    We're from teh basements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    I think the best program for writing PHP (and practically any language) has to be notepad++. It's not an IDE as such, it's notepad with syntax highlighting, but I trust my own file layouts, not dreamweaver's.
    Does it do auto-indent, save to FTP, etc.? What annoys me about UltraEdit is that it doesn't respect my style of indentation (I play tug of war with it over the placement of curly brackets all the time), and it insists on capitalizing certain words (e.g., I have to turn off highlighting to type "window") when JavaScript highlighting is on.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    What do you think about Komodo Edit ? It is free and seems interesting... Zend is to big for hobby programmers like me
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  13. #13
    Theoretical Physics Student bronze trophy Jake Arkinstall's Avatar
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    @WWW: notepad++ doesn't auto-indent as soon as you open a bracket, but once you've indented once, it keeps that indent on the next lines. You have full control over the layout of the code - it doesn't change anything you write - one of it's best features.

    That's what annoys me about writing C# with Microsoft Visual Studio Express. All the code you write gets formatted the way they want - for example, if you write an if statement (I'll put it in PHP code, as this is a PHP forum) in the way you want it (this is the way I want it):
    PHP Code:
    if($somebool == false){
         echo 
    "Somebool is false"//who needs an imagination? lol...

    as soon as you put that last bracket in, it changes it to:
    PHP Code:
    if ($somebool == false)
    {
         echo 
    "Somebool is false";

    But I suppose if it's still the best IDE, you gotta use it.
    Jake Arkinstall
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    Sometimes its enough to make that wheel more rounded"-Molona

  14. #14
    We're from teh basements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkinstall View Post
    as soon as you put that last bracket in, it changes it to:
    PHP Code:
    if ($somebool == false)
    {
         echo 
    "Somebool is false";

    But I suppose if it's still the best IDE, you gotta use it.
    See, I would have to uninstall it after it did that to me a couple of times. The opening curly bracket belongs on the same line as the "if". That's just the way God meant for it to be.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard lorenw's Avatar
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    It sure is quiet in the dw world, Looks like I'm the only one (holds hand up).

    I have all code rewriting turned off as well as auto complete and anything else like define root turned off, ftp etc. And design view is worthless.

    Set it up so it will search in .tpl and other files.

    code hiliting is fine with me, and it is basically like textpad but more expensive ;-( (my version was given to me by a client who wanted to make thier own website but gave up)

    What I can't live without is code snippets, just a double click to read dir and display contents as well as any combo of sql queries, regex etc. and have not found an altenative.

    So I guess I'm the one person with a vote for dw lol and I think its great.

    btw dream weaver has plugins or extensions or something like that, DONT use them. Also dont use the built in dw javascript validation stuff.

    Cheers
    lw
    What I lack in acuracy I make up for in misteaks

  16. #16
    Brevity is greatly overrated brandaggio's Avatar
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    Dreamweaver used in design view to make HTML templates is a bad idea, but other than that, its code handling and management tools are robust.

    If you had it available, on a computer with any decent amout of speed and RAM, it would be silly not to use Dreamweaver, if you don't have use to Eclipse, Visual Studio or the like. It's a great app that does almost everything well - overkill for some tasks, but in 2007 the layout of the app is not nearly as cluttered as it once was and really allows you to just get down to business.

    For me, I spend most of my day in Visual Studio because our programming/dev team codes C#, and Visual Studio has most of the bells and whistled I could ask for, if however, I was coding PHP, Dreamweaver or TextMate would be my ideal weapon of choice.

    JEdit is also a no joke, cross platform tool for real coding (with all sorts of plugins for source control, formatting and whatnot) - though you must run it on a machine with a lot of RAM and ideally a very modern fast processor - not just any old box.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard wheeler's Avatar
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    I don't understand... how do you people design an interface without a WYSIWYG view? I mean i'm no web design wizard myself, but it's part of my job to build a useful interface in html and css. I couldn't imagine designing such a thing by trial and error (change code -> save -> upload -> refresh in browser). I probably spend 99% of my time in code view, but those few minutes in design view is priceless.

    I assume that most of the products mentioned have property boxes and such to manipulate in particular html, but also toolbars to drop in html elements at will. In particular I find html form construction fairly easy in DW.

    I'm still trying to get the whole MVC thing worked out - sounds like the upcoming Zend Studio may fit my requirements - but sadly I might be using Dreamweaver for View and something else for Model and Controller.
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  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard lorenw's Avatar
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    wysiwyg does not at all work with php unless you want to see a (template styled interface) layout, php outputs html and with all of the loops and if statements echoing out html stuff, there is really nothing to see. Example, try wysiwig with oscommerce, phpbb or wordpress. the wysiwyg is blank or makes no sense.

    You dont need to uplad the code (use apache localhost) just save and refresh.

    when it looks right upload. You learn html real quick this way ;-)

    lets say you have 20 associates that you need dynamically placed in a three column layout or need to dynamically create (suckerfish dropdown) ul /ul li styled links from a database. There is only one option and that is save and see what went wrong lol. For me it usually never goes right the first time.
    What I lack in acuracy I make up for in misteaks

  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard wheeler's Avatar
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    I have seen both phpbb and wordpress in dreamweaver, and your right there is not much to see - and obviously another problem is created by dynamic content that won't show properly until it's rendered.

    I'm started to feel that maybe I can do without wysiwyg if it means major improvements in efficiency, although I will miss it.

    Zend Studio Professional discounted to $254... thats alright... not sure why people have problems with paying a bit for a good tool... shouldn't take long to see ROI.
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  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard wheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedDevil View Post
    I still use editplus 2 frequently together with Zend Studio (one on each monitor).
    What does editplus 2 do that zend studio doesn't?
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  21. #21
    . shoooo... silver trophy logic_earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
    What does editplus 2 do that zend studio doesn't?
    It is fast and has a small foot print good for doing quick edits. You should give it a try full of feature updated all the time and doesn't format your code unless you want it too.

    Also for Visual Studio formatting ones code you can change that in the settings.
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  22. #22
    SitePoint Wizard TheRedDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by World Wide Weird View Post
    I tried EditPlus a few years ago when my eval copy of UltraEdit32 expired. I eventually got an UltraEdit license and haven't tried EditPlus again since then. How does it compare with UltraEdit these days?
    Ive never used UltraEdit, so I cant help you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
    I don't understand... how do you people design an interface without a WYSIWYG view? I mean i'm no web design wizard myself, but it's part of my job to build a useful interface in html and css. I couldn't imagine designing such a thing by trial and error (change code -> save -> upload -> refresh in browser). I probably spend 99% of my time in code view, but those few minutes in design view is priceless.

    I assume that most of the products mentioned have property boxes and such to manipulate in particular html, but also toolbars to drop in html elements at will. In particular I find html form construction fairly easy in DW.

    I'm still trying to get the whole MVC thing worked out - sounds like the upcoming Zend Studio may fit my requirements - but sadly I might be using Dreamweaver for View and something else for Model and Controller.
    Personally I frown when I hear people are using WYSIWYG to create a webpage. Though I guess much of the reason, is due to I strive to create valid markup.

    I write any xhtml/css code by hand, usally in EditPlus2 (on one monitor) and various browsers open on the other monitor. That way its just ctrl+s to save, and f5 on the other window to see any changes. When you get used to code by hand, you will do less refreshes to view the result, as you know approxently how it looks already when coding it.

    Note that I am either working directly on a webserver running on localhost, or on the local dev server using webdrive so I do not need to keep reuploading the file.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
    Zend Studio Professional discounted to $254... thats alright... not sure why people have problems with paying a bit for a good tool... shouldn't take long to see ROI.
    The debugging feature alone will make sure you earn in the initial cost in a very short time.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
    What does editplus 2 do that zend studio doesn't?
    Not much, its very light weight as logic_earth mentiones, in addition it has some bad *** search/replace functions.

    I am usally using it to view code on one monitor while I program on the other. Just to get a easier overview over the code I am working on, instead of going back/forth inside Zend Studio when I want to take a look on something for reference, I can just view it on the other monitor.

    I also use it for any xhtml/css and javascript code I am writing, as I like the syntax highlighting there. (Guess you can say Im lazy since I just dont update the syntax colors in Zend Studio)

  23. #23
    We're from teh basements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeler View Post
    I don't understand... how do you people design an interface without a WYSIWYG view? I mean i'm no web design wizard myself, but it's part of my job to build a useful interface in html and css. I couldn't imagine designing such a thing by trial and error (change code -> save -> upload -> refresh in browser). I probably spend 99% of my time in code view, but those few minutes in design view is priceless.
    The browser is the WYSIWYG view. The change code -> save/upload -> refresh cycle is the same thing your editor does, except the editor may skip the save and/or upload steps and directly refresh the view from memory. It's often useful to refresh the view in several browsers (IE, FF, Opera, Safari) rather than assume that what works in Dreamweaver will work everywhere. (Your audience isn't going to view the pages in Dreamweaver - they'll be using a browser.)

    Professional text editors are quite a bit more advanced than Notepad. You don't have to save a file locally then upload it with WS_FTP or whatever. The editor will save the file directly to an FTP server. If having a WYSIWYG view available in the editor is a concern, UltraEdit has a "view in browser" feature. So basically the only thing missing is the drag and drop design mode, which I would never use anyway.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard wheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedDevil View Post
    Personally I frown when I hear people are using WYSIWYG to create a webpage. Though I guess much of the reason, is due to I strive to create valid markup.
    I am somewhat of a standards nutcase myself, I would say dreamweaver tends to do 40% of the validation work for me (by creating standards compliant html + css elements according to the specified doctype), my brain does 30% and Html Validator in firefox helps me identify the rest.
    The change code -> save/upload -> refresh cycle is the same thing your editor does
    not really... I push one button and get a fairly accurate preview of the site, without leaving the program. Apparently in DW CS3 the design view is virtually perfect. In DW 8 it goes some way to picking up cross-browser issues, I can only imagine that has been improved upon even more. I also anticipate they have made more headway on their "live preview" thing which will also load in the dynamic content.

    Again, its just a shame they don't take developer features a bit more seriously. I guess they figure it's a tough market to crack - with the range of recommendations here I can see why!

    Cheers all for all the responses.
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  25. #25
    Founder of Primal Skill Ltd. feketegy's Avatar
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    I think a good code editor should have the following basic features: syntax highlight, code format, file encoding, maybe code completion, ftp editor.

    Of course everybody likes when loads up fast, doesn't use much memory, etc.


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