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  1. #201
    SitePoint Enthusiast Kattaryna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    The PC'ers might shake a finger at me for this: I think on average men and women's brains work differently (there are studies, just G it).
    I may not be correct so please jump in and set me straight.

    It seems to me from what I'm reading here that most of the women, in this discussion at least, seem to have had strong influences that went against stereotypes.

    Maybe this is why we're here doing the work we do. Maybe we think more "like men" because we had these non-stereotype influences in our lives from very early on.

    Work is really busy right now so I don't have time to go back and find each person, but I believe that we had one woman who's parents were both scientists and I know my own family was very much about people are people first and male or female second.

    These studies were conducted on adults or older children. After the types of conditioning we are struggling against has already been put in place.

    Just an observation. Agree? Disagree? Opinions!

  2. #202
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Conditioning to me is the dominant factor why it is the way it is.

    It takes a strong and independent thinker to swim against that, like in all other areas where you have to fight against traditions that are taken as a given.
    Ulrike
    TUTs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

  3. #203
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kattaryna View Post
    ...but I believe that we had one woman who's parents were both scientists and I know my own family was very much about people are people first and male or female second.
    I wouldn't know what to say. My parents where very traditional although my mother did not mind women working. I think that in my case it was a simple case of survival. We were too many and there was no money whatsoever, so it was necessary the help of the whole family to get going. Not for food or house, but if you wanted to buy some clothes that were new, you did have to earn the money to do so. So we became quite competitive. Plus we were eight girls, so the boys were a minority.

  4. #204
    i'm a girl silver trophy Toni's Avatar
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    I did have influences that went against gender norms.

    But, I have always been a tomboy and believe I was born this way rather influenced by encouragement for my individuality. I also had many negative responses and repercussions for going against the grain for sure. I've just been too determined to let those pressures change me much.

    Most of my interests from childhood to now were typically male: in electronics and programming classes in HS I was the only girl in those classes, best friends were often boys, I played on a girls softball team, most of my teammates turned out to be lesbians -- ha... even now my favorite hobby is juggling and seems to very male.

    The web dev world has lots of women in it, but definitely not as high as the male population here, and there is even greater stratification between the types of work men and women choose (programming, seo, design, IT, etc).

    Gender and the Brain, nature vs nurture are some of my favorite subjects to explore. When I was young (5) I believed that other girls were pretending to be "girly" because of the stuff they saw on TV and such. And I thought that gender was pretty much a bunch of stereotypes we learned from imitating others rather than something we are born with.

    Then I had 3 kids. Now I know better
    There are definite differences between the sexes and how our brains work. Some stuff is built in. My son was born with an obsession for cars...he would hug every cool car car he passed in parking lots. Some girls are born more girly. Some are born to be awesome programmers

    Conditioning/environmental factors do play a role, but so do differences in hormones and brain anatomy.
    A good read:
    Sex Differences in the Brain - Sciam

  5. #205
    SitePoint Zealot stikkybubble's Avatar
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    This questions seems to be more about why there are less women in computer CLASSES than in the industry. These do not seem to be synonymous. All I can say is that from my personal experience, women are more likely to hold qualifications in other subjects before getting into programming. I am female, and recently decided to do an MSc in another subject, thinking that I had learned a lot of computer languages in my spare time anyway, and none of the IT courses was suitable. Now both my boyfriend and I are applying for web development jobs, and although it is early days I would not be at all surprised if he gets a better response to his applications, despite having fewer skills and no qualifications. OK, maybe I'm being a pessimist. I certainly hope so. If that turns out to be the case, I will be furious....

  6. #206
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stikkybubble View Post
    OK, maybe I'm being a pessimist. I certainly hope so. If that turns out to be the case, I will be furious....
    Let's hope that you are wrong then

    Still, do take into consideration that you have to be better than he is in your presentations. When you get a job, or you ask for a salary rise, you need to be a good negotiator. So if he is better than you presenting a condfident and trustworthy look, he may get a better position and salary even with less qualification.

  7. #207
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    yeah! it's quite true, why is it there are just few women taking computer science. Since i was graduated last 2001, we have only 3 girls in a class. I don't think so, few women's want to be a developer.Anywayz, i just found this site and its nice. I would like to share this with you,
    <snip>
    Last edited by HAWK; Nov 19, 2007 at 01:57. Reason: Link removed - self promotion not allowed.

  8. #208
    SitePoint Zealot stikkybubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stikkybubble View Post
    This questions seems to be more about why there are less women in computer CLASSES than in the industry. These do not seem to be synonymous. All I can say is that from my personal experience, women are more likely to hold qualifications in other subjects before getting into programming. I am female, and recently decided to do an MSc in another subject, thinking that I had learned a lot of computer languages in my spare time anyway, and none of the IT courses was suitable. Now both my boyfriend and I are applying for web development jobs, and although it is early days I would not be at all surprised if he gets a better response to his applications, despite having fewer skills and no qualifications. OK, maybe I'm being a pessimist. I certainly hope so. If that turns out to be the case, I will be furious....
    Sadly, so far this is indeed what is happening- he gets friendly chatty emails rejecting his applications, whereas I get zero feedback. I havn't had time to read the whole of this forum (obviously), but I did see the response to my previous post suggesting that he may present himself better. Unfortunately, in this particular case that does not explain the discrepancy (he is VERY bad at composing emails etc, you just have to take my word for it).

    Still, its early days, and I still have some hope.

  9. #209
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stikkybubble View Post
    Sadly, so far this is indeed what is happening- he gets friendly chatty emails rejecting his applications, whereas I get zero feedback. I havn't had time to read the whole of this forum (obviously), but I did see the response to my previous post suggesting that he may present himself better. Unfortunately, in this particular case that does not explain the discrepancy (he is VERY bad at composing emails etc, you just have to take my word for it).

    Still, its early days, and I still have some hope.
    My very best wishes to you. Best of luck to you both

  10. #210
    SitePoint Wizard Wolf_22's Avatar
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    Re: Where are all the women in the development world?

    ...Not sure, but if you happen to have the misfortune of being named "Casey" and have graduated from ISU, then chances are they have all died or else are never around despite wearing "Curve" and having on pin-stripe Calvin-Klein slacks with moused-over hair that resembles Will Chalker's on a cool November shoot.



    We have like maybe 1 or 2 attractive ladies in our shop, and of course (as desperate rhetoric of twenty-somthings go), they are always taken leaving me with no one. I try to keep my eyes open to other opportunities around the area, but nothing really ever comes out of it. I could have had a date with this really wild chick that use to work at the local Starbucks, but like I said: she was wild. ...Different guys each day.

    Personally, I think the main reason most women stay away from development is because they always tend to stick with the herd and go where the water takes them. This, of course, leads to things like the norm of today: interior design, business, accounting, clothing, art, real estate, etc.


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