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  1. #51
    l 0 l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    I see you missed the point that the experience was so much better with Microsoft than you had with Apple Care on an almost identical issue. Microsoft Hardware is a wonderful little division. I've always used IntelliMouse mice.
    I can't speak for Apple since I haven't had any problems along this line, but Microsoft Hardware is nuts. I bought the first IntelliMouse Explorer back in the late 90's I think- it had a lifetime warranty and I'm on my third or fourth replacement. (That's a good thing: I've just worn out all the other ones previously through normal wear and tear- buttons worn through, optical parts dying, etc.) Each time I just shoot them a message and they send me a replacement, free of charge.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    they discovered same things d1gg and other tech blogs have discovered awhile back, these flamewars bring in more traffic => ^ profit

    the most outrageous posts make the day, and they dont even have to be remotely based on facts.
    Controversy does indeed generate publicity, however it doesn't require outrageous posts or posts devoid of facts. Facts themselves can seem outrageous to people who have been denied the truth.

    On another note, I owe Kevin Yank a big THANK YOU for starting these threads. I've gleaned quite a bit of useful material (technical and non-technical) for some articles I'm working on.

  3. #53
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    people who have been denied the truth
    yes wheres that blindfold of mine gone, silly me missing out on the real TRUTH

  4. #54
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    I bought my first mac about 3 years ago. About two months or so after my apple care would have ended if i had bought it, i'm playing wow and the video card goes out. But i dunno i'm rather hard on a computer that just got thrown into my backpack and then tossed around in my backpack. Other than that I had one software problem all MS programs stopped function, really weird.
    My friend had a first generation g5, who's fans were stuck on the highest setting that was blast, apple ended up repairing that. But for mac laptops vs dell, in my college freshman class i'd say 1 out of 3 kids with a dell laptop had some hardware problem.

  5. #55
    Brevity is greatly overrated brandaggio's Avatar
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    I think if any complaint can be levied against modern/late 2007 Apple hardware it is that the bleeding edge components they are often incorporating (the drives in particular) and the small form factor they often achieve, can create circumstances that make their products hard or impossible to self service (space it super tight), while also being subject to any hardware quirks that might come from choosing to use a hard drive configuration/technology (for example) that has not been used by anyone else yet.

    Yes, some Apple hardware is just run of the mill, but enough of it isn't, or isn't yet, that it presents some unique challenges vs. PC hardware that has been around for a bit. The two different biz models/approaches create products that are put together quite a bit differently, though they ultimately do more or less the same thing.

  6. #56
    SitePoint Wizard holmescreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Yank View Post
    What do you think? Is Apple hardware crummy?
    Since I made the switch to Mac, in 2005, I've come to own a PowerPC, mac Mini, and a couple of iMacs. I've had zero hardware problems -- thus, I'm considering buying a MacBook in November.

    I believe the main issue with Windows base computers is companies, such as Dell, focus on the fast production versus quality control of their machines.

    Back in 2000, a local college ordered about 200 new Dell computers. 3 in 10 of the CRT's that came from dell where DOA, and 1 in 10 computers DOA.

    In the long run, higher quality control is the issue when it comes to hardware. After just turning my 20th year building, repairing, networking and programming DOS and Windows based machines the majority of service calls are still software related -- this has increased ten-fold since the release of Vista -- and lots of users are getting themselves in a jam when they buy a Vista machine - especially when a user finds out that they hate vista and/or their software and hardware need replacement only to find out that the new vista computer can't be downgraded (Gateway!).
    intragenesis, llc professional web & graphic design

  7. #57
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Sorry (it's Sunday and I'm way out of control), I didn't qualify this post originally. It is in response to posts #49 & #50

    lo0ol & mihd these are two threads amongst some 580,000 threads... Do you really think this is indicative of a covert marketing shift?

    Ok, so this is off the current topic but...
    Personally, I think you're making mountains out of mole hills. Isn't it sometimes a welcome shift to visit a thread where people share their opinions based on experience or personal preference. If you don't agree with them, you don't have to but there is nothing wrong with discussion as long as it doesn't end up in a flame war. I mean, this is the "Community Center" part of the site... Right?

    ... And then it's off to the programming section to discuss day to day work stuff...
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  8. #58
    l 0 l silver trophybronze trophy lo0ol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    lo0ol & mihd these are two threads amongst some 580,000 threads...
    Things get a bit different when the threads are created by SitePoint and not your general run-of-the-mill member.

  9. #59
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by lo0ol View Post
    Things get a bit different when the threads are created by SitePoint and not your general run-of-the-mill member.
    I suppose so but Kevin was an a member who wrote articles and contributed just like everyone else before he joined the team and moved to Australia.

    I don't particularly know who is or isn't part of the SitePoint team except for Kevin and Matt Mc but it seems to me that for as long as I've been a member, Kevin has written articles, blogs and posts that have been controversial. I've agreed with his thinking on some and not with others. I don't see anything particularly deceptive here... This is a fairly hot topic and I've seen a platform shift recently so it's interesting to hear people's experiences with Mac H/W compared to generic PC H/W.

    On that note, I have an opinion about Apples displays & Video drivers. I've never played a demanding game on a Mac so I'm not sure how they handle hi-speed refresh rates or any of that but for rendering text and images, they are second to none. It could be the OS, drivers or H/W but they are definitely doing something right and I have yet to reproduce it with WinXP or any variant of Linux I've tried so far.

    * I'm currently running XP on an AMD Athlon 64x2 2Gigs of Ram, Asus mobo with a Radeon 9550 and a Samsung SyncMaster 206BW (digital). It's pretty good but not as crystal clear as the display on a Powerbook or IMac. Ohhh, but It's pretty darn fast with Photoshop, Illustrator and any of the high memory usage programs we use.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development

  10. #60
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awasson View Post
    Sorry (it's Sunday and I'm way out of control), I didn't qualify this post originally. It is in response to posts #49 & #50

    lo0ol & mihd these are two threads amongst some 580,000 threads... Do you really think this is indicative of a covert marketing shift?

    Ok, so this is off the current topic but...
    Personally, I think you're making mountains out of mole hills. Isn't it sometimes a welcome shift to visit a thread where people share their opinions based on experience or personal preference. If you don't agree with them, you don't have to but there is nothing wrong with discussion as long as it doesn't end up in a flame war. I mean, this is the "Community Center" part of the site... Right?
    Oh come on, no Mac vs PC thread is ever civil and everyone on the internet knows it, especially people who run technical internet forums and have seen the same thread played out numerous times. And the fact that 3 threads have been started on this very topic in the last 2 weeks and the fact that Mac vs PC threads are easy pageview/flamebait and it's really easy to see where zach is coming from.

    There doesn't need to be anything "covert" about this. Occam's razor etc.

  11. #61
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    user since 86

    I had run two businesses continuously have run macs since the laserwriter.

    512Ks, SE's, Mac II 170Color laptops, lots of ci's iMacs of colors and LCD, G3 and G4s and have two laptops now. A 17g4 and a MacPro 1st edition.

    I have never had a hardware failure other than hard drives themselves in the early pre 1G days other than these two instances. 1) the heater fuser unit when out on my 1st laserwriter after 150,000 prints. Cost about $100. 2) the battery on my MacBookPro after 4 mos stopped holding a charge. The first was way out of warranty. The second was covered immediately and I had the replacement in 1 business day (called after 5pm EST).

    Many of these units were used at trade shows and shipped all over the place without incident. I think we lost an original 13 Apple color monitor finally by a teamster. It was 5-6 years old. I believe I ran 300,000 prints through our 8500 large format laserwriter before selling it.

    I fully recommend Apple hardware. I specified it in our video control software head ends specifically because of its robustness and ease of use to run web server and software. At one point we had 100 schools running our products and rarely any hardware issues.

    My (ok my wife's now) 17 inch was purchased when they came out. It has traveled all over and has been used nearly every day. Still has the orignial battery works flawlessly and has no screen degradation. I look at thw 2-3 year old PV laptops around my current employer and laff. They have had lots of problems, the batteries are a joke now, connectors broken rendered useless.

    I guess the flamers will have a field day. But the bigger market is speaking quite loudly. My measly $35 stock purchased when we were told the company was on its death bed has split and is now in the $150 range. Computer sales are setting records and the company it beating market trends consistantly. A pretty good indicator that the products Apple sells are of quality and people are will to pay premiums for that.

  12. #62
    SitePoint Evangelist dev_cw's Avatar
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    My first mac was a black and white mac plus, it had no hard drive and I was cool since I had 2 floppy drives. Photoshop 2 ran on a disk. Since then I have had every sort of mac made and have had very few hardware issues. Actually the only problems I have ever had has been with hard drives, and half of those were external so had nothing to do with the mac.

    Now on the other hand my partner has always had macs and has been plagued by problems. She has had memory issues, video cards problems, hard drive and cd-rom drive issues. Her last computer, a G4, completely stopped working and apple authorized threw in the towel.

    The bottom line is that it can be just a matter of luck. First generation can be risky, but my first generation G4 is still working great, while my partners last generation G4 is a huge paper weight.
    "You can just hang outside in the sun all day tossing a ball around...
    Or you can sit at your computer and do something that matters."
    - Cartman

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldartman View Post
    Computer sales are setting records and the company it beating market trends consistantly. A pretty good indicator that the products Apple sells are of quality and people are will to pay premiums for that.
    According to this article, the Mac's market share more than tripled over the last three years, boosted partly by frustrated consumers fleeing Vista:

    Apple's Mac Sales are Surging

    I wonder if Apple will lower their prices a bit once their market share goes past, say, 10%.

  14. #64
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    consumers fleeing Vista
    hmm are you sure about that?

    vista is now on more computers than mac / mac intel and it wasnt released to long ago either...


    http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

    Code:
    Month   Windows XP   Windows Vista   Windows 2000   Mac OS   MacIntel   Other 
     September, 2007   79.32%   7.38%   3.32%   3.38%   3.23%   3.39%

    anyways this thread is about apple hardware @geosite so no need to hijack another thread

  15. #65
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    I've been in my current job 10 years. We run 9 production macs with 2 mac servers. In that time, we've had one hard drive failure and one CD burner failure. The front office has 5 PCs, and they've had 1 hard drive failure. So as far as I'm concerned, our macs are twice as reliable.

    Meanwhile, my PC at home? Don't even get me started. Lost a CD burner and a video card within the last two months.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    hmm are you sure about that?
    Read the article; I posted a link.

    anyways this thread is about apple hardware @geosite so no need to hijack another thread
    Off Topic:

    So why are YOU discussing software???

  17. #67
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    i found this Nokia ad amusing





    more on apple iphone bricking >> http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/01/n...pple-campaign/

  18. #68
    SitePoint Guru
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    I am a MacBook owner since Augustus 2006.
    1. Heatsink had to be replaced
    2. Memory burnt
    3. Power cable burnt (seriously but it was me pulling it like crazy everytime when I want to move to other couch; because of fantastic magnet feature)
    4. I broke the corner of it when I was slamming to close.

    What I like about apple is that; they are so easy to reach (walk in to one of the Apple stores) when you need help. And they are always helpful.

    Yes I will buy a new Mac when my MacBook dies
    Last edited by sylow; Oct 1, 2007 at 08:08. Reason: typo

  19. #69
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geosite View Post
    According to this article, the Mac's market share more than tripled over the last three years, boosted partly by frustrated consumers fleeing Vista:

    I wonder if Apple will lower their prices a bit once their market share goes past, say, 10%.
    Vista overtook Mac's market share in its first 2 months. Mac's share has crawled up to about 3% over the years. Talking about what they'll do at 10% is like talking about an imaginary alternate universe.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    Vista overtook Mac's market share in its first 2 months. Mac's share has crawled up to about 3% over the years. Talking about what they'll do at 10% is like talking about an imaginary alternate universe.
    Off Topic:

    If Windows' market share is roughly 90%, and 10% of the people using Windows upgrade to Vista, Vista would then have 9% market share - more than Apple's 6%. So what's your point? Does that change the fact that Apple's market share has doubled? Does it change the fact that it's still increasing? If it continues to increase at 1% a year, then it will hit 10% in four years - hardly an imaginary alternate universe.

  21. #71
    SitePoint Member Ellia's Avatar
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    Hello Kev,

    Interesting post and very useful.


    I'm addicted Windows XP Home user...I think it's better than Mac.

    Hey, thanks again for the great thead...

    all the best,

  22. #72
    SitePoint Member Ellia's Avatar
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    Is Apple Hardware crummy?

    Hello Kev,

    Interesting post and very useful.


    I'm addicted Windows XP Home user...I think it's better than Mac.

    Hey, thanks again for the great thead...

    all the best,

  23. #73
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    pi** on Windows. My latest purchase was a PC laptop. Hate it!!! I gave my old iBook to one son and a HP tower to the other. Neither a computer user but fought over the iBook.

    I will pay the little extra money next time to own a mac. Much better smoother operation, especially using graphic programs (windows opens everything in well, windows.) Makes it difficult in programs like photoshop, Indesign, Quark, etc.

    And crashes? I get the dreaded blue screen alot on my junky pc laptop. I am just waiting for it not to work and me lose all data stored on it. Guess that's why I don't store data on it. It is less than a year old and ready for the dump.

  24. #74
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    What brand was your PC laptop and how much did it cost compared to the iBook?

    Blue screens are 99% hardware errors. OS X would crash on that same hardware too.

    If you spent $1300 on an iBook and picked up a $699 PC laptop, then a higher rate of hardware failure is kind of expected. But if you bought a nice Sony Vaio or something like that, that's just a shame.

  25. #75
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    Blue screen errors are 99.9% hardware errors.....
    Are you sure about that?

    I'm a Windows guy from the old 16 Bit (Windows for Workgroups) days and it seems that 99.9% of Windows crashes are caused by the registry and DLL problems.

    It sure wasn't hardware for my poor Win2k Server machine. All patched up with the latest SP's and it still crashed on a regular basis. It was overkill on hardware with lots of ram and good 7800RPM 250Gig Hard Drives. P4 2.8 Gig, 1 Gig Ram, Radeon 9800 Pro, SB Audigy. That's how it came from HP. I never tried it with Linux or WinXP and eventually retired it for a lower quality Compaq unit that runs Win2003 Server without any trouble.
    Andrew Wasson | www.lunadesign.org
    Principal / Internet Development


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