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  1. #1
    SitePoint Member MarketingCoaches's Avatar
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    Let's Stop The Generic Advice On Site Point

    Now I'm not going to pretend to know all and see all when it comes to internet marketing, I learn everyday, but at the same time it kills me to see the generic advice given 98% of the time on Site Point and all the other forums.

    There are some truly brilliant business people on here, the sad part is they almost never post, but when they do, they are actually in the mood to help a fellow entrepreneur.

    It is so obvious that people just want to pretend they know what they are talking about. Why do so many people feel the need to post things like "you need to write articles" "you need to SEO your site" "you need to build a list". And worse than that, 30 people after them will type "yeah" "yes" "i agree", and how does this help someone? If it was your first day starting your business would that advice help you? You can find that anywhere, this is a place where real successful people can give back and share some insider advice.

    I got in this game 10 years ago and it was only thanks to my own hard work that I'm a seven figure earner today, there was no other option. Today we have Site Point, DP, the warrior forum and others where people could really help each other if they wanted to.

    I'm not trying to be rude to some of the people that post, but either they have no business posting because they have no idea how to make money themselves, or they just don't care and have nothing better to do than give generic answers. If you're afraid to give away good step by step advice in fear of competition, that's fine, but then you shouldn't be posting just to post.

    If anyone has an actual IM question feel free to PM me anytime and if I can help, I'll be gald to give you a real answer, if not, I can promise I won't write a useless response just to feel like I'm a source of information. I hope others will do the same and really start sharing some knowledge with eachother.
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  2. #2
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingCoaches View Post
    If anyone has an actual IM question feel free to PM me anytime and if I can help, I'll be gald to give you a real answer
    Rather than PMing, it would be better to post... that way everyone can benefit from your knowledge.

  3. #3
    You Bet Your Life...Really lerxtjr's Avatar
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    This is an interesting and unusual topic to me. Go to any Internet conference and the speakers will tell you to never get advice from a forum. I've always resented speakers who say that because there is a lot of good advice on the boards.

    I too have been at this for double-digit years and went through the same perils early on. But, I think the advice given on sitepoint is a bit higher than you're crediting, more like 50% or 60% quality material. Better than other boards.

    I've also always had a hunch that those who DO write quality content have a little more success than the others, and are willing and eager to give. They are the ones too that are spending additional time with their responses to make sure the wording is just right.

  4. #4
    _ silver trophy ses5909's Avatar
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    Also, instead of complaining, step in and give advice yourself. When I see something that I feel is bad advice I come into the thread and offer what I feel to be better advice. Feel free to do the same.
    Sara

  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard
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    The generic advice or lack of advice that is very specific, in regards to those who are very knowledgeable, may be due to those people wanting to keep certain (secret/proprietary) knowledge to themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by lerxtjr View Post
    Go to any Internet conference and the speakers will tell you to never get advice from a forum.


    Most of those speakers are compensated in some way for speaking at the conferences, right?

    I'd be at least a bit skeptical about that advice. It seems to me that conference speakers may have an agenda when recommending their audience to not utilize other potentially useful sources of information.

    Maybe they also prefer that conference attendees not spend so much on books and instead spend that money on going to more conferences.

    There are many sources of valuable information. Those seeking the information just need to be able to pick out the good from the bad.
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  6. #6
    Business Growth *******s, Inc
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    John2k is correct here, although I can certainly understand your point of view MarketingCoaches.

    The only thing I deal with is this: isn't this just to promote your own business? And if you ever give them your sincere, specific advice - would they ever come to you to buy products or services?

    Really, there are so many freebie seekers that I don't want to mess around posting valuable advice for free. I give only a tip or two - when they want more they can contact me.

    I do offer a free exploratory meeting for anyone who wants marketing and strategy advice or assistance. However I rarely cure someone's problems without charging for it.

    Just like you need medical advice, you can't find specific advice in forums. You need to see a real doctor for advice specific to your body and needs. It's impossible in almost every case.

    Just my thoughts, but feel free to let me know what you think about it.

    -Dave Origano
    Business Growth Advisors Inc

  7. #7
    Cha, Cha, Cha!!! Gamermk's Avatar
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    Ask a Generic Question...

    Get a Generic Answer.
    People don't read ads. They read what interests them,
    and sometimes that happens to be an ad.
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  8. #8
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    I had the extreme pleasure of sabotaging (yes, SABOTAGING) an "Internet Marketing Conference" last year here in Aurora, Illinois. I think it was one of those conferences run by Stores Online. Once they found out what I do for a living, they became VERY edgy and nervous, didn't want to answer any questions that I was asking (the first tipoff was the very technical questions I was asking about their server architecture and development procedures - I even asked them if they were hiring, and they said they only hire people who live in or are willing to relocate to Utah). I was allowed to stay for the conference and lunch, but once the conference was over, I was ushered out the door while the business owners were allowed to network. One person I was talking to was even forced to leave during the conference after I gave him my contact information on the back of my lawyer's business card.

    These "Internet Marketing Conferences" exist for one purpose and one purpose only. To make the people running them money. They're like leeches in that regard. Just like a regular parasite, they attach themselves to a healthy host and then suck their blood (in this case, money) until they get so large that their needs outweigh what their host can provide. By then it's too late to do anything about it.

    Apparently my honest advice and criticisms worked because the other business owners were talking about what I had said to the gentleman who had to leave during the conference. Especially given that I haven't received a single offer from any other such "conferences" since then. Or maybe they've just learned to keep their mouths shut around me. Who knows?

  9. #9
    SitePoint Member MarketingCoaches's Avatar
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    Well my agenda is certainly not to sell our services with this post, in fact Site Point is really best for making some strong connections or selling an online company to an investor, finding customers here is not generally the best source as most are just starting out and have nothing to invest, they just need a little help. That was my point, and there is some great advice here, but I think it could be better and I am guilty of not offering a good suggestion when I could have as well. I have to say the comparison to the medical industry is far fetched in my opinion. For example, if someone is promoting a home based business offer and needs help getting started, quite a few of us here know exactly how to do it up down and sideways. Now my point was, if you don't want to give away any of your secrets, that is totally fine, however have the courtesy not to post something generic just to post.
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  10. #10
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Oh, I know your agenda isn't to sell something. Threads like this just have a tendency to drift while somehow miraculously remaining somewhat on-topic.

  11. #11
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingCoaches View Post
    Now my point was, if you don't want to give away any of your secrets, that is totally fine, however have the courtesy not to post something generic just to post.
    That particular point is perfectly fair. I couldn't agree more.

    It was just your offer to give advice 'behind the scenes' that bothered me a bit.

  12. #12
    You Bet Your Life...Really lerxtjr's Avatar
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    became VERY edgy and nervous, didn't want to answer any questions
    I think I went to the same one here in Colorado where the company was trying to sell turnkey store sites and then you were supposed to pay another $150 or something and get seo training a few days later on the upcoming saturday. About 70% of the audience was over 55, which was sad to see that age group being led into a gaping pit like that. I only remember going home and searching for the company and all I found were hate sites (referring to the company) and no sign of the actual main company site on google. How's that for seo! Yeah, go to that class for sure!

    Bringing this back to topic...

    Getting useful step-by-step content of value from any form of learning whether forum, a training class, a saminer, a book can only be expected in small doses. You have to put up with the generalities and be grateful when a gem comes along.

  13. #13
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    I think a lot of people give generic advice because they do not know any specifics. Some might feel obligated to say something, a form of politeness. Some like to gather post counts (roll-eyes). Some do not understand what it means to give true advice. We have a lot of very young people aboard here, not much experience yet, what they say is the best they can say, thinking that it might be helpful.

    And some advice that seems superficial might raise a point that is worth exploring further.
    Ulrike
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  14. #14
    SitePoint Member MarketingCoaches's Avatar
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    Actually I didn't think of it as "behind the scenes" in the way you read into it. I just figured I wouldn't be checking on this post for an extended period of time and wanted to say "Hey, if you have a quick question, feel free to shoot me a pm, who knows, I may have an answer".
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  15. #15
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingCoaches View Post
    Actually I didn't think of it as "behind the scenes" in the way you read into it. I just figured I wouldn't be checking on this post for an extended period of time and wanted to say "Hey, if you have a quick question, feel free to shoot me a pm, who knows, I may have an answer".
    It is interesting how one can read a statement. Now you said what you wanted to say

    That is how it is on a forum. Always be specific It is very difficult to phrase a statement 100% correctly and not have it read in a little bit different way by another person unless you say it bluntly. Even then, people's minds work in mysterious ways
    Ulrike
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  16. #16
    SitePoint Member Jenn T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingCoaches View Post
    If you're afraid to give away good step by step advice in fear of competition, that's fine, but then you shouldn't be posting just to post.
    I know this is a forum, but do you really expect people to give away all their secrets? Most people here are new and just getting their feet wet. I think that's the reason you aren't seeing any real advice, just speculation and general commentary...

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard LiquidReflex's Avatar
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    Give someone a fish, feed them for a day ... teach them to fish, feed them for a lifetime.

    Yes there are going to be some generic advice given around the forums, some by people who just don't know more than that but want to post something. But personally I think that laying out exactly what to do is partially defeating the purpose of this site, which is to help you learn. If you receive some guidance toward your goal but actually have to (gasp) do the work yourself or do a little research, you're going to learn the "why" in addition to the "how". That knowledge is not something that you can just pick up in a forum post, it really comes with doing the legwork.

    In the end, I'd rather go fishing I guess.
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  18. #18
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidReflex View Post
    Give someone a fish, feed them for a day ... teach them to fish, feed them for a lifetime.

    Yes there are going to be some generic advice given around the forums, some by people who just don't know more than that but want to post something. But personally I think that laying out exactly what to do is partially defeating the purpose of this site, which is to help you learn. If you receive some guidance toward your goal but actually have to (gasp) do the work yourself or do a little research, you're going to learn the "why" in addition to the "how". That knowledge is not something that you can just pick up in a forum post, it really comes with doing the legwork.

    In the end, I'd rather go fishing I guess.
    Yes, I see it that way as well. Nothing works better in the learning process than struggling through something. But it does not mean that advice is not valuable. Advice can prevent a person from having to go through the agony of taking steps that end only in failure. But advice on a forum should also be taken with a grain of salt.

    We have great advice here on sitepoint, that is why it is so successful, if it were all fluff it would have not gone as far as it did, and still it is growing. I for one am grateful for all the things I have been able to learn here from advice that was certainly not generic.
    Ulrike
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  19. #19
    SitePoint Member MarketingCoaches's Avatar
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    All good points, but I think a lot of people would rather it be hard for everyone else if it was hard for them. In my mind, giving out contacts and short cuts isn't giving them the fish, it's showing them where to fish Just because it was hard for me ten years ago to build all my companies doesn't make me want to sit back and enjoy others failing. I prefer to see people become successful even if it's easy thanks to a lot of help. This world would be a much better place if those of us who have made it gave a little whisper here and there to those just starting out.
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  20. #20
    I Love Licorice silver trophybronze trophy Datura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketingCoaches View Post
    All good points, but I think a lot of people would rather it be hard for everyone else if it was hard for them. In my mind, giving out contacts and short cuts isn't giving them the fish, it's showing them where to fish Just because it was hard for me ten years ago to build all my companies doesn't make me want to sit back and enjoy others failing. I prefer to see people become successful even if it's easy thanks to a lot of help. This world would be a much better place if those of us who have made it gave a little whisper here and there to those just starting out.
    Nobody said that they wish for another person to fail. I just do not understand where you get that idea from. SitePoint is nothing but helpful advice. Nobody wishes for another person to have a hard time, but that comes with building a business, even if you have all the best advice in the world, you still must go through this process yourself.

    Look around and see for yourself. You have not been a member here very long, this forum is vast, if you would take the time and see the effort that has been exerted here to help people, you would not make such a statement.

    So, please be so kind and make sure that you do not misunderstand SitePoint.
    Ulrike
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  21. #21
    You Bet Your Life...Really lerxtjr's Avatar
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    make sure that you do not misunderstand SitePoint
    That's an appreciated response Datura....

    Riding on those coat tails of that response, I'd like to include that it does take time to craft a perfect forum response with ALL the steps and ALL the little nuances and ALL the pieces and ALL the secrets of what it takes to get a particular problem solved on the web.

    Someone that is very successful online can only be expected to have a few additions or minutes to discuss a particular issue. Because, successful people online are pretty popular! Their time is valuable and they are extremely efficient with their time.

    That's why they're successful--they don't spend 5 hours a day on forums crafting the perfectly constructed posts to educate everyone step-by-step.


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