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  1. #101
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Guy View Post
    Apple always gets you on the upgrades. $120 for an each 40 gigs of hard drive space. I think NOT!
    So upgrade the parts yourself. I bumped my Macbook up from 512MB RAM and a 60GB hard drive to 2GB and 120GB for about $250 last year. That would be even cheaper now since DDR2 prices have fallen. Just about every other brand-name vendor does the same thing.

  2. #102
    SitePoint Addict jpease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felgall View Post
    If you need a car to get to the shops then would you buy a Ford or a Porche? For most people the extra expense of a fancy non-standard computer just means that they would limit themselves in what they can do with it.
    I think your comparison is wrong.

    First of all, in what way would using a Mac / OSX limit what you can do as an individual who works in the tech industry (which I'm guessing would be the case with most individuals here)?

    With my MacBook I can test my websites in OSX, Windows XP, Linux, Solaris or whatever else that runs under Parallels. Can I easilly do that from within in Windows?

    Where exactly are you 'limiting yourself' by not using Windows?

    Overall the debate is mostly useless. Windows based machines aren't automatically Fords and Macs aren't automatically Porsches. You can find similarly speced and priced XP and OSX machines (unless you are looking for a total budget box). You can probably do your work on whatever OS. That being the case, it is mostly a matter of preference.

  3. #103
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    what exactly DOES it provide? thats not already provided by other platforms
    An operating system that has left me with a better workflow, much easier to use technology, no errors, a more intuitive interface, more logical IA. Aside from that, it's much more fun and joy to work with OS X as opposed to Win XP and there is not a single functionality that Mac OS X does not have that I'm missing. All of these factors are not provided by Windows (up to XP - cannot judge on Vista).
    And please, this is my perception based on my experience and personal preference. What reason would there be for me to prefer Windows over Mac OS X if the latter simply works better for me? This makes no sense, does it?
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpease View Post
    Can I easilly do that from within in Windows?
    ughhh yea! vmware.



    Quote Originally Posted by jpease View Post
    Overall the debate is mostly useless.
    i agree


    Quote Originally Posted by jpease View Post
    You can find similarly speced and priced XP and OSX machines (unless you are looking for a total budget box).
    where?


    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek
    And please, this is my perception based on my experience and personal preference.
    thank you for an honest opinion with no added apple marketing booboo pity it took 5 pages to get a good post

  5. #105
    SitePoint Evangelist Andrewaclt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    Is it still cheaper after you buy a retail copy of Windows and virtualization software? "Run Windows" seems to be the suggestion for playing games on a Mac...
    I'm not sure, I do not run windows, nor do I play games. I own two copies of Windows so I've not really priced everything out, but if I wanted to run windows, I'm legally allowed to do so.

    I'm not sure why you'd need windows AND virtualization software bootcamp is free, and it will be with leopard.

  6. #106
    SitePoint Zealot Enzyme Online's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewaclt View Post
    You must not have read the thread, yes you can get a crappy dell laptop at a cheaper price, but when you actually compare a mac to the equivalent thinkpad the mac is actually cheaper. I've not tried to compare it to a dell because I will never buy a dell, and would rather not waste my time. In any case, I'm sure a dell with similar specs is comparable.
    sorry. I didn't read the rest of the thread.

    forget dell
    how about a mac compared to an hp in terms of money and how good it is
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  7. #107
    SitePoint Evangelist Andrewaclt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    where?
    I've pointed this out three or four times, compare a thinkpad to a macbook, you'll see similar price.

    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    thank you for an honest opinion with no added apple marketing booboo pity it took 5 pages to get a good post
    I think you have reading comprehension issues if you honestly think this thread is "apple marketing booboo." I don't even own a mac...

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzyme Online View Post
    sorry. I didn't read the rest of the thread.

    forget dell
    how about a mac compared to an hp in terms of money and how good it is
    I'm sure you can look this up as easily as I can, I have no interest in buying an HP, so I've not looked at it. If memory serves, HPs were comparable to thinkpads in terms of price, but I might be mistaken.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewaclt View Post
    I've pointed this out three or four times, compare a thinkpad to a macbook, you'll see similar price.
    please post a link of your comparison, should be interesting, not to mention dell support sucks and i personally wouldnt touch them with a long stick



    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewaclt View Post
    I think you have reading comprehension issues if you honestly think this thread is "apple marketing booboo." I don't even own a mac...
    i dont own a mac but had to fork out for osx, beside the point most comments from fanboys seem to come straight from a marketing department


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewaclt View Post
    I'm sure you can look this up as easily as I can, I have no interest in buying an HP, so I've not looked at it. If memory serves, HPs were comparable to thinkpads in terms of price, but I might be mistaken.
    please post a comparison with a HP as well, the more the merrier


    theres no need to pluck statements out of thin air
    if macs are cheaper for the same feature set then why is it so hard to find a link with specs and prices for all to see?

  9. #109
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzyme Online View Post
    sorry. I didn't read the rest of the thread.

    forget dell
    how about a mac compared to an hp in terms of money and how good it is
    -Configurable- HP Compaq nc8430 Notebook PC
    HP Compaq nc8430 Notebook PC
    Genuine Windows® XP Professional
    Microsoft® Vista Ready Label
    Hardware kit
    Intel® Core™2 Duo processor T7400 (2.16-GHz, 667-MHz FSB, 4-MB L2 Cache)
    Intel® Centrino® Duo Label
    2048MB 667MHz DDR2 (2 DIMM)
    120GB Hard drive (5400 rpm)
    15.4-inch WXGA
    DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive
    56K high speed modem
    10/100/1000 NIC
    8 Cell 68WHr Primary Battery
    Keyboard with Enhanced Dual Pointing Devices
    Intel 802.11 a/b/g MOW 1
    Embedded TPM 1.2 security chip
    Biometric Fingerprint Reader
    Fingerprint Reader RTF Card
    3/3/0 Year WorldWide Limited Warranty


    $2,331.00

    Update
    $2,331.00

    $331 more than a Macbook Pro, and it still has a slower/less efficient processor (2.16GHz Merom vs 2.2GHz Santa Rosa), I didn't even get a graphics card option, no LED screen, no draft-n wireless. You do get a 3-year warranty though, which is about $350 from Apple on the Macbook Pro.

    So you save $19 by going with HP over Apple, and even then it's not a directly comparable machine, but it's as close as I could find.

    edit: not sure if this link will work for anyone but me...http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/dca...D=19701&SBLID=

  10. #110
    SitePoint Addict jpease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    ughhh yea! vmware.
    Ughhh, no. I haven't tried it myself, but according to the website:

    Runs on both Windows and Linux host operating systems and supports most desktop and server editions of Microsoft Windows, Linux, Solaris x86, Netware, and FreeBSD as guest operating systems
    So if you are hoping to test for users that are using OSX, it doesn't look like you can do that in VMware on Windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    where?
    Here is a price comparison I did April 20, 2007 on MacBook vs Dell:

    A white 13" MacBook with the same specs (Core2 Duo 2.0GHz, 1GB RAM, 80B SATA 5400RPM drive, 3 yr warranty, Intel 950 graphics card) on a 14" Dell E1405 (cheapest I could find) runs $1,548 for the MacBook and $1,526 for the Dell.

    So the difference in price is a whopping $22!!!! Oh the humanity. How can they charge so much? Oh, but wait, the MacBook includes a built-in webcam and wireless & bluetooth - which aren't available options on the budget Dell E1405. Plus for $1,526 you can only get Vista Home Basic (not sure exactly what is stripped out), but with the MacBook you get the regular professional version of OSX.
    And on MacPro vs Dell:

    You need power, eh? Well you will have to click into Dell's "Small Business" section to find their workstation class desktops. Topping out both machines (as close as I can get):

    CPU: Dell Precision (8x2.66GHz Xeon), MacPro (8x3.0GHz Xeon)
    RAM: 4GB (that's the most Dell offers, could have gotten 16 on MacPro)
    Disks: 4x500GB SATA drives
    Video: The high end equivalent video card for the MacPro (QuadroFX 4500) & Precision(QuadroFX 4600) said it wasn't compatible with Vista. So put these in:
    Dell: 2x 256MB Quadro FX 3450
    Mac: 4x 256MB GeForce 7300GT

    Couldn't get everything identical, least of all the prices....

    Dell Precision: $8,444.00
    Apple MacPro: $6,261.00

    Those Apple's sure are overpriced. If only you could get more horsepower for the dollar - oh wait, the Apple workstation is more than 25% less... nevermind. And the MacPro has 8 3.0GHz CPUs, while the Dell Precision has 8 2.6GHz CPUs.

  11. #111
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Oh, and EA just announced they're doing simultaneous PC and Mac launches for Tiger Woods and Madden this year. Who said Macs don't have games?

  12. #112
    Put your best practices away. The New Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia View Post
    Oh, and EA just announced they're doing simultaneous PC and Mac launches for Tiger Woods and Madden this year. Who said Macs don't have games?
    Don't forget blizzard games. Which are actually quality. Unlike the crap EA makes.
    "A nerd who gets contacts
    and a trendy hair cut is still a nerd"

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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpease View Post
    So if you are hoping to test for users that are using OSX, it doesn't look like you can do that in VMware on Windows.

    oh really?


    fires up vmware...

    http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1908/image1cp8.jpg

  14. #114
    SitePoint Zealot Enzyme Online's Avatar
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    do macs require completely different parts?

    would they be common online?
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  15. #115
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    hey thanks for showing off your pirated software

  16. #116
    SitePoint Member jackm's Avatar
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    Why I don't use Mac, in a few words

    Hello All:

    I teach CAD/CAM for jewellery design in London.

    The reason why I don't use Macs is simply because most of the software packages I teach aren't offered on Macs.

    I know there are performance differences with 3D applications, but this is never something I've had time to explore, and I don't have the patience to sort through all the marketing hype and didactic technobabble on the techie websites.

  17. #117
    SitePoint Addict jpease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    I'm not trying to spread mis-information. So does VMware support OSX? Can an individual legally do it? Obviously you got it to work, but I cannot find any info on their site to suggest it is a supported OS under the Windows version of VMware Workstation.

  18. #118
    SitePoint Wizard Rabies's Avatar
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    Vgarcia, you're in this thread so much, it's as if you're afraid someone will get the impression a PC is better. That insecurity doesn't look so hot for Mac...

    Anyways, read up the 30 days with Mac OSX here:
    http://www.hardocp.com/

    I too think Apple should wake up and make their OS available for general PCs. They'd capture a much greater share than the 6% they hold now. (And VGarcia, you said they tried that in the 90's? Wrong, what they did was allow Apple "clones", and that bombed big time. What we're talking about here is not allowing anyone to "clone" a Mac, we're talking about making OSX run on the standard PC set up.)

  19. #119
    SitePoint Zealot chrisdpucci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpease View Post
    I'm not trying to spread mis-information. So does VMware support OSX? Can an individual legally do it? Obviously you got it to work, but I cannot find any info on their site to suggest it is a supported OS under the Windows version of VMware Workstation.
    No it can't be done legally. Apple's EULA clearly states that OSX can not be run in virtualization in any way.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgarcia View Post
    hey thanks for showing off your pirated software
    no need to be a jerk you can buy osx here for a measly 120$

    http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Tige...1586338&sr=8-1


    and vmware here
    http://www.vmware.com/request_proces...STORE-WKST6-MK
    or get a free trial before you buy



    Apple's EULA clearly states that OSX can not be run in virtualization in any way.
    and they say microsoft is a monopoly that locks down their OS...

  21. #121
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Heyyyy, sweet. Safari is now available for Windows. Testing in Safari was one reason at least one person here wanted to use a Mac, but it's not exactly on topic, so I started a new thread to discuss.

  22. #122
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    no need to be a jerk you can buy osx here for a measly 120$

    http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Tige...1586338&sr=8-1


    and vmware here
    http://www.vmware.com/request_proces...STORE-WKST6-MK
    or get a free trial before you buy
    Okay well did you buy it? And did you use the DVD/CD you purchased in your VMWare instance? And if you did it, how the hell did it work because nobody I know has been able to do it. The only boxed versions of OS X for sale are for PowerPC processors and not Intel, so it really shouldn't work.

    Break my chain of logic here and I'll apologize for saying you have pirated software.

  23. #123
    SitePoint Wizard mcsolas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iTechno View Post
    In light of charmed's thread about Opera I decided I'd do a similar one to gather user reasons for using Windows (or Linux) rather then Mac's.
    I actively make use of macs, pc's & linux, but all for different reasons. I spent a lot of time editing on the g4 this year..

    Considering switching platforms, however, I have run into some issues & limitations that concern me:

    1) Fragility / poor hardware design

    My DVD burner just failed. Recently talked with several long time mac users and they described this problem as *commonplace*.

    The laptop chargers were of very poor quality. I have seen several fail. I went to go buy another on the mac site and so many reviews said it was breaking .. I went looking for a third-party manufacturer that offered compatible power source for the g4.

    I found the lack of 3rd party equipment to be a concern, especially when the 'official' product was of such poor quality.

    2) They way they have handled the Ipods.

    Any company that would ever treat their customers like this has me very concerned.

    3)
    availability of hardware

    Kind of a locale specific issue, but here in this country, the mac store isnt close.. several hours away over a road that on its best day is in horrible condition. There is no mac hardware available around here, all problems we have had have severely limited our editing capabilities until they were solved. I had to bring the power cord back from another country.

  24. #124
    Scary's On The Wall
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    Reasons for Windows (aka PC) over Mac:

    - Right-click
    - Gaming
    - I'm familiar with Windows and not Macs
    - Price

  25. #125
    In memoriam gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Schulz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman View Post
    Heyyyy, sweet. Safari is now available for Windows. Testing in Safari was one reason at least one person here wanted to use a Mac, but it's not exactly on topic, so I started a new thread to discuss.
    Dan, I owe you a case of beers.


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